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Official Terrorist Bombing and Other Acts of Inhumanity Thread - Page 80

post #1186 of 1434
Thread Starter 
There is certainly a group of people with unreasonable fears, but the same side that wants to draw a dozen delineations in Islam for terrorism apologetics, seem to be the same people that want to caste any reasonable precautionary measures as "quaking in fear." It's a funny dynamic.
post #1187 of 1434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Is some level of fear/caution bad? I mean we're both familiar with the 313. Isn't it reasonable to have some fear of being in certain areas at night? With immigration if we're bringing in a population that is known to include people subscribing radical Islam is it not a prudent concern to think some of them might be inimical to us? And as we know 2nd and 3rd generation seemingly being preyed on my immigrant holy men and their supporters isn't it prudent to take some constructive steps as a society to mitigate this? I think we can see what allowing the far right echo chambers that have developed in the US will lead to so we should probably, as a society, work on disrupting these breeding grounds of problems no matter where they are and who inhabits them.

Just IMO, YMMV, and YOLO.

too many questions here, but i've been in seedy areas in 313 late at night, i've walked around the parts of chicago that make the news alone at 2 am, i've been in the south side of 520 that is "infested" with gangs and traffickers (because there are good cheap burritos), i've had a shotgun pointed in my face in 520, i've wandered around aimlessly in the streets of karachi, i've been to the banlieu ("no-go zones") outside of paris (where i got arrested within 10 minutes of arriving), etc etc.

the point isn't that i'm some tough guy, but that there is this incredible sensationalism coming from The MSM (tm) that is really alarmist when it doesn't have to be that way. of course people should be diligent and aware of their surroundings no matter where they are. that's probably how i survived.
Quote:
Originally Posted by origenesprit View Post

It is stressful! One of the unexploded bombs from this weekend was found on the street outside right in front of my office door.
When you start to believe that it could happen to you, even on your boring ass street, suspicion is natural, isn't it?

in NYC? that sucks. i was just there last weekend. thankfully nbody tried to push me into the subway tracks or set my clothes on fire wink.gif

i guess i'm just not all that panicky. i did once see an abandoned box near penn station so i went the other way teacha.gif
post #1188 of 1434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

There is certainly a group of people with unreasonable fears, but the same side that wants to draw a dozen delineations in Islam for terrorism apologetics, seem to be the same people that want to caste any reasonable precautionary measures as "quaking in fear." It's a funny dynamic.

It's too bad Trump has become the spokesman for the "we ought to do something" camp. There's a reasonable conversation in there, but (again) we aren't having it because of the effect of Trump.


There might be kind of a Catch 22 there. You need someone who isn't beholden to the "usual rules" to raise the conversation, but not so far outside that it shuts down the conversation. Maybe that person doesn't exist in the US right now.
post #1189 of 1434
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

It's too bad Trump has become the spokesman for the "we ought to do something" camp. There's a reasonable conversation in there, but (again) we aren't having it because of the effect of Trump.


There might be kind of a Catch 22 there. You need someone who isn't beholden to the "usual rules" to raise the conversation, but not so far outside that it shuts down the conversation. Maybe that person doesn't exist in the US right now.

Yeah, Trump is certainly not the guy to foster a productive conversation over this (or probably anything.)
post #1190 of 1434
I'm not "on a side " so I can't really comment from that perspective but I do feel that the damage people do to themselves and others around them when they act from a position of unreasonable fear far out weighs anything the object of that fear presents. But that begs the question " isn't that the goal of terrorism"
post #1191 of 1434
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbernine View Post

I'm not "on a side " so I can't really comment from that perspective but I do feel that the damage people do to themselves and others around them when they act from a position of unreasonable fear far out weighs anything the object of that fear presents. But that begs the question " isn't that the goal of terrorism"

But you seem to be framing this such that any precaution is from "unreasonable fear."
post #1192 of 1434

I have no problem with precautions unless the are disproportionate to the threat

post #1193 of 1434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Is some level of fear/caution bad? I mean we're both familiar with the 313. Isn't it reasonable to have some fear of being in certain areas at night?

That's just Dark Alley Phobia
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

Look, Islam is a shitty religion just as all religions are shitty. Maybe it's worse than the others at the moment, it probably is.

this alone posted some months ago would save us like 20pages of shitposting in CE biggrin.gif, anyway hard to disagree
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

I'm saying that when you say radical Islam people just hear Islam.

well if you mean overall that's certainly what some people hear, here everyone(?) is capable of making that distinction and that's why it's so annoyingly frustrating when it's sometimes implied in threads like this or other that we don't
post #1194 of 1434
Thread Starter 
So then obviously TSA is unreasonable as out of all the millions of flights only a few were used as weapons?
post #1195 of 1434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

There is certainly a group of people with unreasonable fears, but the same side that wants to draw a dozen delineations in Islam for terrorism apologetics, seem to be the same people that want to caste any reasonable precautionary measures as "quaking in fear." It's a funny dynamic.

It's too bad Trump has become the spokesman for the "we ought to do something" camp. There's a reasonable conversation in there, but (again) we aren't having it because of the effect of Trump.

There might be kind of a Catch 22 there. You need someone who isn't beholden to the "usual rules" to raise the conversation, but not so far outside that it shuts down the conversation. Maybe that person doesn't exist in the US right now.


Same with rise of right-wing parties in Europe, if the left, the liberals would stand up for actual liberal values it is likely we wouldn't have cluster fuck we have now. If Trump is the only person who raises this issue he will have monopoly on that. (well besides odd liberal here and there like Bill Maher or Sam Harris who get shitted on and marginalized by the left for their comments- anyways nobody important on the left politically confronts this issue)
post #1196 of 1434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

So then obviously TSA is unreasonable as out of all the millions of flights only a few were used as weapons?

as far as i'm concerned , the TSA does more to terrorize millions of americans , corrals them into small areas, and also lets all sorts of weapons onto planes under the guise of security nod[1].gif
post #1197 of 1434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

It's too bad Trump has become the spokesman for the "we ought to do something" camp. There's a reasonable conversation in there, but (again) we aren't having it because of the effect of Trump.

Like we were having this conversation before?

Admittedly I'd rather have a better Trump, but he's put the issue out there like it never has been before.
post #1198 of 1434
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post
 

Look, Islam is a shitty religion just as all religions are shitty. Maybe it's worse than the others at the moment, it probably is. But when you make a group out of it you get people like suited afraid to go to the Halal Guys cart because they might terrorist attack him. It's not helpful. 


firstly, there's a halal chicken place that i get take out from weekly. delicious, nutritious and convenient. so there's that. 

 

secondly, I assume that long-term terror strategists hope and pray and bleed for the marginalization of mainstream islam in the west. so who's making groups?

 

thirdly, i don't think the counter to that is to say that all religion is shitty when this is an issue of political violence. 

post #1199 of 1434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Like we were having this conversation before?

Admittedly I'd rather have a better Trump, but he's put the issue out there like it never has been before.

I did mention that issue in the next sentence.


We weren't really having the conversation, but Trump has made it radioactive for people who might have been willing to listen otherwise. If Trump loses, who else is going to step in and pick up the mantel of this conversation?
post #1200 of 1434
Quote:
Originally Posted by double00 View Post

secondly, I assume that long-term terror strategists hope and pray and bleed for the marginalization of mainstream islam in the west. so who's making groups?
'

1. what do you mean mainsteam islam, is there even such thing?

2. Do expect liberal and moderate muslims to start sucide attacks because problems of global jihadism and islamism are clearly adressed?

3. Do you mean experts like this?
(all things considered you are lucky you have an ocean with experts like these)

Quote:
Originally Posted by double00 View Post

thirdly, i don't think the counter to that is to say that all religion is shitty when this is an issue of political violence. 

What political issue had Tshernev brothers who got asylum in the USA out of all places or 9/11 bombers who were from the country who is the 2nd biggest USA ally in ME? ISIS actually tells you via sources like their magazine Dabiq why they hate us. But some of us fail to take their word seriously for some reason.
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