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Official Terrorist Bombing and Other Acts of Inhumanity Thread - Page 79

post #1171 of 1314
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zalb916 View Post

This is cute.

And accurate. wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by zalb916 View Post

So, you have shifted the goal posts. It was originally "we have no legal obligation." Now, it's "okay, maybe we have some legal obligation, but that legal obligation doesn't specify the exact number of people." Actually, that's generous. You shifted even further by adding "despite material security risks." No. This just isn't how it works.

First, you are correct. We do have some ability to pick and choose. Nobody has suggested or argued otherwise. In fact, several people have mentioned that we pick and choose, explaining numerous times that the bar for refugee status is extremely high. This is our picking and choosing. Much of this is codified. It's not just the whim of some government dudes. Second, if you are looking for the defined obligation to take X number of people, you should look to Section 207 of the INA, which provides the mechanisms for determining that number. There is tons of info out there about how that number is reached. Here is some of it:
http://www.state.gov/j/prm/releases/docsforcongress/247770.htm
I also would suggest reading the Congressional Record, if you would like more information about how we determine X number. This number is set every year by Congress and the president.

Changing policy to reduce the number of refugees admitted and to increase the stringency of screening process are totally reasonable suggestions to address the concerns you are raising. I haven't said your concerns are invalid. I've said you don't understand the proper way to address your concerns. These policy discussions can't exist when people in the conversation don't understand some of the basic legal frameworks under which U.S. refugee policy is operating. At some point, it's not productive to continue the conversation, if you are not interested in understanding that framework.

This is a very good post.
post #1172 of 1314
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post


I'm really curious how afraid some posters really are, or if they're just couching true intent in such language. Seems like a very stressful way to lead a life.

Is some level of fear/caution bad? I mean we're both familiar with the 313. Isn't it reasonable to have some fear of being in certain areas at night? With immigration if we're bringing in a population that is known to include people subscribing radical Islam is it not a prudent concern to think some of them might be inimical to us? And as we know 2nd and 3rd generation seemingly being preyed on my immigrant holy men and their supporters isn't it prudent to take some constructive steps as a society to mitigate this? I think we can see what allowing the far right echo chambers that have developed in the US will lead to so we should probably, as a society, work on disrupting these breeding grounds of problems no matter where they are and who inhabits them.

Just IMO, YMMV, and YOLO.
post #1173 of 1314

Going around stabbing random people isn't radical Islam. It's just a crazy person. Jabhat Fath al-Sham (nee Jabhat al-Nusra) are radical Islamists, ISIS are radical Islamists, Ahrar, the Taliban, Hizb ut-Tahrir etc etc etc


Edited by ethanm - 9/20/16 at 8:14am
post #1174 of 1314
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

Going around stabbing random people isn't radical Islam. It's just a crazy person. Jaysh Fath al-Sham (nee Jabhat al-Nusra) are radical Islamists, ISIS are radical Islamists, Ahrar, the Taliban, Hizb ut-Tahrir etc etc etc

I think this might be a first. We've gone from "no true Muslim" to "no true radical Muslim."
post #1175 of 1314

Look, Islam is a shitty religion just as all religions are shitty. Maybe it's worse than the others at the moment, it probably is. But when you make a group out of it you get people like suited afraid to go to the Halal Guys cart because they might terrorist attack him. It's not helpful. 

post #1176 of 1314
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

Look, Islam is a shitty religion just as all religions are shitty. Maybe it's worse than the others at the moment, it probably is. But when you make a group out of it you get people like suited afraid to go to the Halal Guys cart because they might terrorist attack him. It's not helpful. 

But it is a group and I'm not responsible for what suited does.
post #1177 of 1314

I'm saying that when you say radical Islam people just hear Islam. 

post #1178 of 1314
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

I'm saying that when you say radical Islam people just hear Islam. 

Some do, some don't. Undeniable is that it is a form of Islam.
post #1179 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

I don't think it's his responsibility to understand how the government can implement the changes, that falls on the shoulders of elected officials.

I'm really curious how afraid some posters really are, or if they're just couching true intent in such language. Seems like a very stressful way to lead a life.

It is stressful! One of the unexploded bombs from this weekend was found on the street outside right in front of my office door.
When you start to believe that it could happen to you, even on your boring ass street, suspicion is natural, isn't it?
post #1180 of 1314
Even "radical Islam" has some pretty serious distinctions. Al Qaeda's style of "Islamic terrorism" is significantly different from what ISIS is doing. The Al Qaeda people tended to be seriously educated in Islam, albeit an extreme form. A lot of ISIS recruits barely know how to read, much less have any scholarly knowledge of Islam. The self-radicalized people in the West pick up ISIS ideology online, but don't tend to have any background in actual Islamic study. ISIS uses these guy's ignorance along with a superficial, heavily edited, and stylized version of Islam that they created to this purpose.


I've seen ISIS compared more to a gang than a religious extremist organization. It's a lot easier to package and export. Disillusioned or deranged people who lean towards the Muslim world can pick up and digest ISIS ideology on their own online, without the rigors of serious religious learning.
post #1181 of 1314
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by origenesprit View Post

It is stressful! One of the unexploded bombs from this weekend was found on the street outside right in front of my office door.
When you start to believe that it could happen to you, even on your boring ass street, suspicion is natural, isn't it?

As I said above when you're running the calculus on lives it means something entirely different when it has a personal impact. Glad that bomb didn't go off.
post #1182 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

Going around stabbing random people isn't radical Islam. It's just a crazy person. Jaysh Fath al-Sham (nee Jabhat al-Nusra) are radical Islamists, ISIS are radical Islamists, Ahrar, the Taliban, Hizb ut-Tahrir etc etc etc

Most muslims claim ISIS isn't islamist, which is part of an underlaying issue. The first step to solving the problem is adminting there is a problem.


Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

I'm really curious how afraid some posters really are, or if they're just couching true intent in such language. Seems like a very stressful way to lead a life.

Scared no. Wholeheartedly worried about the way our society is moving and the socioeconomic and societal issues, yes.

A few years ago a lot of people only locked their doors, when they went to sleep. Now we are seeing the first signs of gated communities with guards and panic rooms. This has happened within a 10 year period. I wouldn't be surprised if we are going to see a change in the weapons laws within 10 years and armed guards are going to be allowed.

I know a bunch of people in their 20-30s who believe the welfare state is going to be dead, when they retire. Other people have chosen not to have kids due to their worries about the way the society is moving.
post #1183 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Find Finn View Post
 
 
Scared no. Wholeheartedly worried about the way our society is moving and the socioeconomic and societal issues, yes.

A few years ago a lot of people only locked their doors, when they went to sleep. Now we are seeing the first signs of gated communities with guards and panic rooms. This has happened within a 10 year period. I wouldn't be surprised if we are going to see a change in the weapons laws within 10 years and armed guards are going to be allowed.

I know a bunch of people in their 20-30s who believe the welfare state is going to be dead, when they retire. Other people have chosen not to have kids due to their worries about the way the society is moving.

You deny being scared yet describe people quaking in fear?

post #1184 of 1314
No, they are worried and taking precautions based on experience.

There are essentially 3 ways this can go and 3 solutions.
post #1185 of 1314

You can't take precautions against the things they fear . If it makes them feel better thats fine but its just stacking shit against the tide. People need to learn how to swim not just throw others out of the life boat and wait to be rescued.Not to mention it is a crappy way to live IMO

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