or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › General › Current Events, Power and Money › Official Terrorist Bombing and Other Acts of Inhumanity Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official Terrorist Bombing and Other Acts of Inhumanity Thread - Page 71

post #1051 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post

What ISIS practises in lands they control, minus the warfare is not that far off what is practised in for example Saudi Arabia. Doesn't matter if not all of ISIS members are muslim scholars, they don't have to be. I'm pretty sure Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has pretty good understadning of islamic doctrines. There happen to be multiple doctrines as you are aware, there isn't one interpretation. I don't think you could make a great case that sharia under ISIS is conceptually fundamentally diffrent from the sharia in SA.

so your two criteria are now: scholar, and saudi arabia.

back to my point, i said a large percentage of recruits didn't even have a cursory understanding, never mind and working knowledge. so i'm glad you are now an authority on sharia law and the qualifications of al baghdadi (a "phd" from some random school in baghdad? can you tell me about his isnad, is he a hafiz, does he have credentials recognized by al azhar or medina, how much fiqh does he know, what about the sermon he gave where he just plagiarized a bunch of other speeches intertwined with verses of quran presenting nothing new of his own, never mind the nom de guerre that is based off a place, a sign of irrelevant lineage and something not very common among arabs). do you realized a great portion of isis leadership is made up of former baathists that escaped once saddam was deposed ? what does that say about political vs religious aspirations ?

on the other hand, your next extreme criteria is comparison with saudi arabia. fantastic, another corrupt and illegitimate monarchy run by a family that, due to huge political aspirations dating back a few centuries, colluded with zealots to legitimize their dictatorship and rename the hijaz in their own honor only to build giant buildings where herders once roamed.

i think we agree re: interventionalism as well as a strain of extremism that is unleashing havoc now, but making sweeping generalizations and factually inaccurate statements doesn't really help solve anything at this point.

Dearborn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Just off the top of my head I think the Muslim vote more or less went for Bush in Y2K but am pretty sure in the 80s and 90s they swung Dem. I can remember CAIR in Dearborn trying to get Arabs/Muslims deemed a protected class.

i imagine the influence of SE michigan would carry some weight? the state hasn't voted R since the 1990s or something. No idea what meforum is (seems rather bogus based on mission statements) but here is another take which asserts something I've noticed as well, that is foreign born vs american born delineation:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/12/republicans-muslim-vote-george-w-bush-donald-trump/419481/

i've even heard speeches where muslim leaders in the US say outright, 'we align much more with republicans, but we have to be with the democrats because of their support of minorities.' a non-psychotic republican candidate could easily grab the millions of votes especially against someone like clinton, but this divisive, antagonizing rhetoric is certainly going to push them toward self-serving (or self-preserving) mindsets.
post #1052 of 1314
Traditional conservatives have always grabbed a portion of votes from less progressive immigrant demos, solely on the most distasteful element of their party's platform: social conservatism. Anti-marijuana decriminalization, anti-gay marriage/rights, anti-abortion rights. Even the conservative PM up here in tolerance-land played to these regressive beliefs for a dependable bloc of votes for a good 10 years.

From a small-l liberal POV, the whole symmetry - while counter-intuitive at first and certainly worthy of note - is hardly anything to be pleased about.
post #1053 of 1314
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

i've even heard speeches where muslim leaders in the US say outright, 'we align much more with republicans, but we have to be with the democrats because of their support of minorities.' a non-psychotic republican candidate could easily grab the millions of votes especially against someone like clinton, but this divisive, antagonizing rhetoric is certainly going to push them toward self-serving (or self-preserving) mindsets.

How did Romney do with them? He's certainly non-psychotic at the very least and he's pretty moderate. McCain was even a champion against water boarding and how did he do?

I think non-white populations vote Dem as I believe money speaks louder than espoused moral values and group identify on other issues wins. It would seem Hispanics, heavily religious and heavily (espoused at least) anti-abortion, would be a natural Repub affinity but not so due to border issues and social programs. The voting portion of blacks seem very religious and they're 99% or so Dem. Even Asians that fit into the "model immigrant" mold are heavy Dem.

Let's face it; the Repubs have created a party that is 90% white and likely to remain that way no matter who is fronting it. Romney was the last moderate Repub to run for POTUS.
post #1054 of 1314
you should note the difference between arab and non-arab populations in the US--you were most likely to interact with a certain subset in Dbo. I don't disagree with your assessments, esp. the last point, but it's not like the Republican candidates were very welcoming either. the thing is, the rhetoric changed in the 2000s. Sure, Romney criticized Hermain Cain for his stance on opposing appointment of muslims to gov't, but just a few months after Romney was courting some folks that espoused fairly open anti-muslim views (Boykin, Bauer, Bolton, etc). that probably hurt him. Mccain shot himself in the foot several times with his perverse obsession with bombing our way to peace or trying to deflect criticism of obama by saying "he is a decent guy...not an arab" as if those are diametrically opposed.
post #1055 of 1314
Thread Starter 
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37146531

Many killed and injured in bomb blast detonated at wedding.
post #1056 of 1314

My guess is ISIS wants to send a message to Turkey about going after Jarablus. Jokes on them though because the Turkish government doesn't give a shit about civilian lives. 

post #1057 of 1314
Someone got tired of all the honking
post #1058 of 1314
Thread Starter 
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37147717

It's really pretty horrible. They're saying about 50 dead and 70 wounded now with the suicide bomber being a 12-14 year old boy. What sort of fucking sociopaths do that?
post #1059 of 1314
This stuff still surprises you?
post #1060 of 1314
Thread Starter 
I hope I'm never not surprised that some religious sociopaths got a boy to walk into a wedding celebration and blow himself and others up.
post #1061 of 1314
according to CNN, Erdogan's position is that 'there was "no difference" between the three main opponents of his government -- namely the terror group ISIS; the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK); and the network of US-based cleric Fethullah Gulen, state-run Anadolu news agency reported Sunday.'
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

My guess is ISIS wants to send a message to Turkey about going after Jarablus. Jokes on them though because the Turkish government doesn't give a shit about civilian lives. 

in particular, kurdish civilian lives.
post #1062 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I hope I'm never not surprised that some religious sociopaths got a boy to walk into a wedding celebration and blow himself and others up.

Watching some of the docs on syria and ISIS, I have to say I'm not even a little bit surprised they are able to do it. Had it happened outside of the ME I would have been surprised.
post #1063 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I hope I'm never not surprised that some religious sociopaths got a boy to walk into a wedding celebration and blow himself and others up.

:lookaround:Watch out you don't get labeled a humanist

post #1064 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

on the other hand, your next extreme criteria is comparison with saudi arabia. fantastic, another corrupt and illegitimate monarchy run by a family that, due to huge political aspirations dating back a few centuries, colluded with zealots to legitimize their dictatorship and rename the hijaz in their own honor only to build giant buildings where herders once roamed.

Yet saudi wahhabism has been exported to many places in the world and they have a lot of support.. not to mention other salafis. There is a spectrum of problems with these people and I don't think you can just 'no true muslim' them just because of corruption of the royal family or because you personally think their version of Islam is wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

i think we agree re: interventionalism as well as a strain of extremism that is unleashing havoc now

agreed here
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

, but making sweeping generalizations and factually inaccurate statements doesn't really help solve anything at this point.

it's ISIS own words, you don't need to make your own statements just listen what they have to say. Sure it may not be true for leaders of ISIS they may be driven by other motivation(for example Sadam's generals you mentioned) but idiots blowing themselves up in suicide attacks or attacking people with axes/.machetes are obviously driven by religion; vision of paradise or atonement for their sins etc.

wheter politicians admiting this will do any good is a topic for another conversation, but religious motivation of these people is not really up for debate if you want to be honest, interventionism made a vacuum where these ideas could flourish but it did not create them.
post #1065 of 1314
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Events, Power and Money
Styleforum › Forums › General › Current Events, Power and Money › Official Terrorist Bombing and Other Acts of Inhumanity Thread