Yeah, well ..... sorry, Frank, but C-Sub owners aren't allowed to complain
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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre, Baume & Mercier and more) - Page 59post #871 of 40213/18/16 at 4:27pmpost #872 of 40213/18/16 at 4:31pmpost #873 of 40213/18/16 at 5:09pmpost #874 of 40213/18/16 at 5:22pmpost #875 of 40213/18/16 at 5:43pmpost #876 of 40213/18/16 at 7:23pmpost #877 of 40213/18/16 at 7:44pmpost #878 of 40213/18/16 at 8:30pmQuote:
Best is subjective...on a technical level the Lange Datograph has an amazing movement. However, I was never a fan of their mixing Romans, sticks, and Arabic numerals on the dial (that was corrected much later in production).
In terms of beauty and best bang for the buck, this would be my favorite hand wound chronograph, the VC Historiques. Based on a classic VC of the 1940s/ 50s and uses very high quality Lemania as its base.
I tried to get my father to purchase one years ago. However, he preferred its cousin, Patek's 5070J, which used the same base movement. However, Patek made modifications to the movement, which some believe make its movement superior...but the cost of entry was and still is significantly more. It's also based on a vintage design.
And for a manual wind sports watch, my favorite based purely on aesthetics would be vintage Rolex 6263post #879 of 40213/18/16 at 9:28pmpost #880 of 40213/18/16 at 9:55pm
I've heard good things about the Lange 1815 Chronograph.
Quote:Originally Posted by Dino944
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Really beautiful and I love the texturing of the strap! It should age beautifully!!!
I've read that the earliest 16520s came in at around $2,400. When I started buying Daytonas started looking at Daytonas in 1993/94 a steel one was $3800, then it went to $4350, then went to $5,100, then $5,500, and the last of them were $6,000. When the 116520 came out it was the same price as the outgoing model $6,000, then it went to $6,500...and went up bit by bit to its current level.
I got into them sort of on the early end of things, and I never paid over list price. Grays and some ADs were getting premiums of anywhere from $2,000 over MSRP to double the MSRP. There were some people who would buy one at list from an AD, and then flip it a few hours later to make a tidy profit. So some AD's would require a deposit to weed out less serious buyers, and some would only sell the person a SS Daytona if they had made other big ticket purchases...buy a gold Day Date and you can then buy a SS Daytona.
In terms of pricing being all over the place, that is very true of 16520s. To a casual observer they look the same. However, there are numerous differences over the years...making some rarer than others and more valuable. Early ones had the word "Cosmograph" separate from the rest of the text, or what collectors call"Floating." The bezels also were calibrated differently going only to 200 units rather than 400 and had all brushed bracelets, and did not have the safety latch/oyster lock clasps. Some early 16520 Daytonas used porcelain dials. There were also changes in the writing/font of the subdials, and some have dials where the color changed (and people pay more for that oddity), and then a change in lum, and the addition of SEL bracelets.Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
With 116520s, there were changes in hands, changes to the movement, changes to the clasp, the Rolex name and serial got added around the inner bezel area, the lum changed, etc. For now the market hasn't strongly distinguished between these differences other than people paying more for the newest ones with a warranty.
That'st just sort of a short summary. There are guys with sites dedicated to the various distinctions and who have tried to collect one if each variation. Hope that helps. Cheers!
Thanks for the great reply! Two things I noticed when I was looking 16520s was that one listing called it a "limited edition" and another listing called the movement a "zenith" movement. So were they indeed limited editions? Also, was "zenith" just the name of the movement (I assume so) as opposed to Zenith making the movement?post #881 of 40213/19/16 at 3:15ampost #882 of 40213/19/16 at 3:28ampost #883 of 40213/19/16 at 3:36ampost #884 of 40213/19/16 at 3:58ampost #885 of 40213/19/16 at 7:56amQuote:Originally Posted by BLAUGRANA
Thanks for the great reply! Two things I noticed when I was looking 16520s was that one listing called it a "limited edition" and another listing called the movement a "zenith" movement. So were they indeed limited editions? Also, was "zenith" just the name of the movement (I assume so) as opposed to Zenith making the movement?
No, the steel models were not "Limited editions." At most production was somewhat limited, because they were dependent on an outside supplier (Zenith), the movements were complex and received many modifications once they reached Rolex, and there was a greater profit margin on gold and tutone models so they had incentive to put more of them into all gold or tutones than all steel (although, I'd guess more movements went into tutones, because the price of the all gold model limited the customer base for that model). The base movement of the 16520 was actually an El Primero movement from Zenith. However, Rolex supposedly 100-200 changes to the movement such as reducing the number of beats from 36,600 to 28,800. I have a list of changes somewhere in my reference materials, although I've never counted all of them to get an exact number. Anyway, so many changes were made that some considered the 1652X the last Rolex to truly have a lot of hand workmanship. Overall, great watches and one of my favorite Rolex watches, but definitely NOT limited editions. Cheers!
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