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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre, Baume & Mercier and more) - Page 57

post #841 of 3960
Agree completely. The only Speedmaster (probably the only Omega) I like is the pro. There have been and continue to be too many different editions and models named Speedmaster that have not been consistent to the name or appearance with different movements and functions all of which have diluted the name.

Between the Daytona and Speedmaster(not even sure which one you mean which is part of the problem, see above) I really don't see any comparison. They are just different watches in quality, workmanship and just the way they feel. Kind of like asking why most people on SF would prefer an Isaia or Kiton blue suit over a Suit Supply blue suit. Nothing wrong with Suit Supply but just not the same.

I would point out that Omega is not, and doesn't try to play, in the same league as Rolex. In fact the NYT had an interview with Omega's CEO yesterday who stated the average price for its watches is 7k and they have moved up a lot but plan to stay there. Nothing wrong with Omega but that is just the way it is.

It all comes down to what you like and are happy with. You prefer a Speedmaster? Then get one and wear it and enjoy it in good health.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Daytonas have been around for more than 50 years.  It has been worn in various forms by some of the very successful race car drivers in history (Hurley Haywood, Sir Jackie Stewart, Paul Newman).  You talk about "Pedigree" and the Daytona's pedigree, is that of a watch that has evolved constantly with improvements being to its movement during the course of production.  Rolex cal 4130 considered one of the best designed chronograph movement regardless of price. A lot has been written about each generation of Daytonas, in various watch books, articles, and online (so if you want to learn more about their heritage/history...just do some research). 

When one considers the Speedy the only model I'd consider is the Speedy Pro (none of the others interest me). It has nice history being the moon watch, but they stopped using the movement that went to the moon, cal 321, many years ago.  Modern versions cut some corners using a few plastic parts.  So it isn't quite the same watch and I'm not sure I'd consider plastic parts an improvement.  Also, I've said it before so I will keep it short, Omega does far too many Anniversary editions (such that they don't seem that special or limited), and they have even made Speedys that look like vintage Exotic Dial/PN Rolex Daytonas.  I just don't understand making an Speedy that looks like a Daytona?

As for the price, the Speedy has always been a very good value.  Its one of its main advantages.  However, if one paid what the Daytona listed for, the resale value of steel ones far exceeded the savings one had by purchasing a Speedy Pro.  I could easily sell my steel 16520 for 2 to 3 times what I paid for it when new, and my 116520 was purchased several years ago, and regardless of what the market does (now with ceramic ones available) I could still sell it for 40-50% more than I paid for it.  So each watch has a price advantage in a sense.

For me the the pros of the Daytona - they are automatics so I don't have to wind it each day if I'm in a hurry.    
                                                     -they are more water resistant than Speedy Pros, which is advantageous if vacationing to beach area or using pools.
                                                     -traditionally much higher demand and higher resale value.
                                                     -in my friend's experience Rolex has a bit better quality control (than Omega in general, one of my collector friends went through 3 defective Omegas,                                                            granted all were Seamasters) before going with a Speedy Pro and not having any issues.
                                                    - I prefer the dial layout, screw down pushers, case and oyster bracelet.  I do wish they would go back to using a brushed finish on the lugs but I can live                                                           with them as they are.

In my collection, I try to purchase pieces that I feel I could live with if I could only have one watch.  I used a Daytona as a daily wearer for 5 years.  It could be a do everything watch for me, if I could only have 1 watch.  While I like the Speedy Pro...there have always been others
post #842 of 3960
In re: Daytona vs. Speedy

Other than the already excellent discussion, personally, a lot of it comes down to aesthetics, movements and cases. On the simplest level I like the look of the Daytona more than the Speedy. Diving in a little further, you have a pretty big gap in the quality of the modern movements if you go with the 'traditional' Speedy vs the 4130. Now if you go with a 'modern' speedy that gap mostly disappears as the 9300 series of movements by Omega have been well regarded but then the cases they use are so thick that they don't interest me.

I went through the process of comparing the Omega offerings vs the Daytona recently as I've described in bits and pieces over the past few months. I came to like the look and the movement of the Grey Side of the Moon, it is probably my favorite modern speedy. And while the GSOM cut the gap between the aesthetics and movement; the thickness and overall size sorta turned me off a bit.
post #843 of 3960

Just got the BLNR yesterday. Maiden voyage today. First Rolex.

 

 

Along with my other watch.

 

post #844 of 3960
I love the DSOM and the GSOM, but Omega really should've stopped there. Now there are like 6 different versions including the meteorite dial one. Just like others have mentioned, too many variations/editions on a theme kind of ruined the specialness of it.

but to that end, I think you can get a GSOM for far less than MSRP wink.gif

R
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerpac View Post

In re: Daytona vs. Speedy

Other than the already excellent discussion, personally, a lot of it comes down to aesthetics, movements and cases. On the simplest level I like the look of the Daytona more than the Speedy. Diving in a little further, you have a pretty big gap in the quality of the modern movements if you go with the 'traditional' Speedy vs the 4130. Now if you go with a 'modern' speedy that gap mostly disappears as the 9300 series of movements by Omega have been well regarded but then the cases they use are so thick that they don't interest me.

I went through the process of comparing the Omega offerings vs the Daytona recently as I've described in bits and pieces over the past few months. I came to like the look and the movement of the Grey Side of the Moon, it is probably my favorite modern speedy. And while the GSOM cut the gap between the aesthetics and movement; the thickness and overall size sorta turned me off a bit.
post #845 of 3960
Very nice! Enjoy
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktown View Post

Just got the BLNR yesterday. Maiden voyage today. First Rolex.




post #846 of 3960
I just voted as well. I am not sure if the watches shown are actually the ones that might get produced, but I dislike fake aging/patina on new watches. Kind of a deal breaker for me.

Will be interesting to see how it goes though.



Quote:
Originally Posted by pmeis View Post

I voted in the Heuer Autavia reissue poll just now.  With only 1000 votes per pairing so far, one thing that seems apparent is that people seem to prefer three register chornographs over two. 
post #847 of 3960
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktown View Post
 

Just got the BLNR yesterday. Maiden voyage today. First Rolex.

Looks great congrats and enjoy!  :cheers: 

post #848 of 3960
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Modern versions cut some corners using a few plastic parts.  So it isn't quite the same watch and I'm not sure I'd consider plastic parts an improvement.  

First let me say that I don't disagree with you overall and even as a speedy owner and fan I wouldn't consider them superior to the Daytona and as many have said they are really just birds of a different feather. I still like the daytona and wasn't cross-shopping when I got my speedy. If anything it was speedy over one of the tudor heritage chronos for me and I'm very happy with my decision on so many levels.

The thing is, I find you ordinarily extremely fastidious about details so I'm curious as to what is informing the quoted opinion above? Why is it that you think the inclusion of one plastic part (made of delrin which is a "space age" polymer) is considered cutting corners? It strains credibility to think that Omega has gone to such measures to replace one miniscule metallic part with a self-lubricating synthetic one to save money when they could easily have chosen not to add rhodium plating (as they did in the 861->1861 update) or taken other much measures to reduce cost. Are there other plastic parts besides the delrin brake that you are aware of?

And might not it be true, to the contrary, that the delrin part is better because it's both self-lubricating (/hroi) and gentler with the wheel it interacts with and that the move was very much substance over form? Now I'm not a watchmaker so I don't know if metal or delrin is better for the chrono brake and as I recall Archer is skeptical that it makes a difference because from what he's seen the part rarely has any issues in the movement, but I still don't see how there could be any cost savings from replacing one miniscule part out of hundreds.

If Rolex were to change a Daytona part to plastic they would probably come up with a new name like OysterPolymer and introduce it as a monumental breakthrough at Baselworld.

Most of what you wrote is clearly a fact or an opinion, but the quoted statement to me is an indication of bias, again unless you have some evidence that the world doesn't appear to be aware of that the delrin part is in fact "cutting corners" or that there are other plastic parts in the cal 1861. By way of example, my previous paragraph is something a Rolex hater would say.


Also, to bring this back around to watches we appreciate - I was able to make it to the RSC yesterday and got my Explorer resized so I can wear it now, yay!!!
post #849 of 3960
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmeis View Post

I voted in the Heuer Autavia reissue poll just now.  With only 1000 votes per pairing so far, one thing that seems apparent is that people seem to prefer three register chornographs over two. 

You can't trust people mate. You really can't trust people.

post #850 of 3960
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnFacconable View Post

First let me say that I don't disagree with you overall and even as a speedy owner and fan I wouldn't consider them superior to the Daytona and as many have said they are really just birds of a different feather. I still like the daytona and wasn't cross-shopping when I got my speedy. If anything it was speedy over one of the tudor heritage chronos for me and I'm very happy with my decision on so many levels.

The thing is, I find you ordinarily extremely fastidious about details so I'm curious as to what is informing the quoted opinion above? Why is it that you think the inclusion of one plastic part (made of delrin which is a "space age" polymer) is considered cutting corners? It strains credibility to think that Omega has gone to such measures to replace one miniscule metallic part with a self-lubricating synthetic one to save money when they could easily have chosen not to add rhodium plating (as they did in the 861->1861 update) or taken other much measures to reduce cost. Are there other plastic parts besides the delrin brake that you are aware of? Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
And might not it be true, to the contrary, that the delrin part is better because it's both self-lubricating (/hroi) and gentler with the wheel it interacts with and that the move was very much substance over form? Now I'm not a watchmaker so I don't know if metal or delrin is better for the chrono brake and as I recall Archer is skeptical that it makes a difference because from what he's seen the part rarely has any issues in the movement, but I still don't see how there could be any cost savings from replacing one miniscule part out of hundreds.

If Rolex were to change a Daytona part to plastic they would probably come up with a new name like OysterPolymer and introduce it as a monumental breakthrough at Baselworld.

Most of what you wrote is clearly a fact or an opinion, but the quoted statement to me is an indication of bias, again unless you have some evidence that the world doesn't appear to be aware of that the delrin part is in fact "cutting corners" or that there are other plastic parts in the cal 1861. By way of example, my previous paragraph is something a Rolex hater would say.
Also, to bring this back around to watches we appreciate - I was able to make it to the RSC yesterday and got my Explorer resized so I can wear it now, yay!!!
I can offer a bit of insight on this courtesy of my watchmaker drinking buddy. While the Delrin brake is probably functionally superior to its metallic counterpart, that's not the main reason that cost-cutting is associated with the progression of the Speedmaster's movement. The big thing was going from column-wheel to cam-switched construction for the sake of cheaper, more efficient manufacturing when they replaced the cal. 321 with the cal. 861, as well as the newer movement's less-elaborate bridge treatment and change to a flat hairspring from an overcoil one. They're all good, reliable movements, though.

By the way, he finds that some of the measures that reduced manufacturing cost also offered some improvements from his perspective, such as reducing the number of different screw sizes and types to a slightly-more-manageable level as the movements developed.

Also, enjoy the Explorer! Nice to get it done in time for the weekend.
cheers.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenLeaman View Post

A week late and way off topic...recommendations on a half-decent grinder?
Here's the best article I've yet seen on affordable electric coffee grinders: http://thesweethome.com/reviews/the-best-coffee-grinder/

Personally, I love my Mazzer Mini-E and it's been flawless in the four years that I've had it so far. I have a Lido 3 on the way as a brew and travel grinder, so the Mazzer will soon be on espresso duty only. A high-quality manual unit is definitely worth considering for home use; you get better grind quality for the buck, and they're quieter and (generally) more compact. Plus you can easily take it to the cabin or whatever. thumbsup.gif

A tip: as a permanent kitchen resident, it's worth getting one that looks OK and doesn't make a shrill, ear-piercing racket during use from the start.
A bonus tip: try not to strip the gears and burn the motor out by attempting to put dried coconut through a burr grinder, as my buddy's wife did with his. :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by alford78 View Post

I've just gotten into home espresso over the past year or so and have been thinking about The Rok manual grinder to get close and personal with some of my favorite beans. Don't know what type of machine you have so just threw out something I've been thinking about buying even though my Coffee Station is running low on space as it is lol. It's an addictive habit once one learns how to pull a great shot at home.

https://www.wholelattelove.com/products/the-rok-coffee-grinder

I briefly considered the ROK too, but everything I came across suggested that the Lido 2 or 3 is the preferable hand-cranker to have without going too insanely over-the-top. If space is a concern, it's worth noting that the Lido also occupies far less of it . Other quality options worth checking out while you're at it include ones from Commandante, Knock, Rosco, and king-of-all-manual-grinders HG One. smile.gif
Edited by Belligero - 3/18/16 at 10:43am
post #851 of 3960

This GP has become my go-to watch and near daily wearer if I don't need ruggedness. I wanted to dress it down and give it a more vintage look. Custom ordered a grained leather strap from Camille Fournet which I received this morning. What do you think? I probably would have gone one shade darker if I could do it over again, but it's still pretty cool! What do you guys think? The interior lining is a cool blue rubberized leather material for summer.

 

 

 

 

post #852 of 3960
Thread Starter 

It looks great, and the strap will darken by itself over time.  Otherwise a tiny touch of shoe cream could take it down a shade.

post #853 of 3960
^
I think it's a great-looking combination now, and that it'll be even better as the strap develops some character and darkens naturally with use. Don't baby it!
post #854 of 3960
Looks good but I think that watch needs an alligator or croc strap. Could have done the same contrast stitching to dress it down if you wanted.

Also would have gone a little darker.

Still a great great watch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH35 View Post

This GP has become my go-to watch and near daily wearer if I don't need ruggedness. I wanted to dress it down and give it a more vintage look. Custom ordered a grained leather strap from Camille Fournet which I received this morning. What do you think? I probably would have gone one shade darker if I could do it over again, but it's still pretty cool! What do you guys think? The interior lining is a cool blue rubberized leather material for summer.









post #855 of 3960
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post
  Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Maybe you should just consider yourself lucky, its one less watch to put on your "Must haves" list.;)

 

 

Daytonas have been around for more than 50 years.  It has been worn in various forms by some of the very successful race car drivers in history (Hurley Haywood, Sir Jackie Stewart, Paul Newman).  You talk about "Pedigree" and the Daytona's pedigree, is that of a watch that has evolved constantly with improvements being to its movement during the course of production.  Rolex cal 4130 considered one of the best designed chronograph movement regardless of price. A lot has been written about each generation of Daytonas, in various watch books, articles, and online (so if you want to learn more about their heritage/history...just do some research). 

 

When one considers the Speedy the only model I'd consider is the Speedy Pro (none of the others interest me). It has nice history being the moon watch, but they stopped using the movement that went to the moon, cal 321, many years ago.  Modern versions cut some corners using a few plastic parts.  So it isn't quite the same watch and I'm not sure I'd consider plastic parts an improvement.  Also, I've said it before so I will keep it short, Omega does far too many Anniversary editions (such that they don't seem that special or limited), and they have even made Speedys that look like vintage Exotic Dial/PN Rolex Daytonas.  I just don't understand making an Speedy that looks like a Daytona?

 

As for the price, the Speedy has always been a very good value.  Its one of its main advantages.  However, if one paid what the Daytona listed for, the resale value of steel ones far exceeded the savings one had by purchasing a Speedy Pro.  I could easily sell my steel 16520 for 2 to 3 times what I paid for it when new, and my 116520 was purchased several years ago, and regardless of what the market does (now with ceramic ones available) I could still sell it for 40-50% more than I paid for it.  So each watch has a price advantage in a sense.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

For me the the pros of the Daytona - they are automatics so I don't have to wind it each day if I'm in a hurry.    

                                                     -they are more water resistant than Speedy Pros, which is advantageous if vacationing to beach area or using pools.

                                                     -traditionally much higher demand and higher resale value.

                                                     -in my friend's experience Rolex has a bit better quality control (than Omega in general, one of my collector friends went through 3 defective Omegas,                                                            granted all were Seamasters) before going with a Speedy Pro and not having any issues.

                                                    - I prefer the dial layout, screw down pushers, case and oyster bracelet.  I do wish they would go back to using a brushed finish on the lugs but I can live                                                           with them as they are.

 

In my collection, I try to purchase pieces that I feel I could live with if I could only have one watch.  I used a Daytona as a daily wearer for 5 years.  It could be a do everything watch for me, if I could only have 1 watch.  While I like the Speedy Pro...there have always been other watches that are better at capturing my heart and $$$...so for me, its just not and endgame watch.   

 

 

Great stuff as always!  I was wondering if you could elaborate on the resale values though.  Specifically, what were the approximate MSRPs of both the 16520 and 116520?  I'm actually quite ignorant as regards the Daytona compared to other watches and have sort of... ignored it based on some of the prices I've seen for vintage references.  I tried to find the MSRP for the 16520 and I couldn't find it.  Prices now seem to range quite a bit as well regardless of condition, but then I find "mint" doesn't equate to what I personally think it would/should.  

 

I feel the same about purchasing a watch.  I am still finding watches that I like out there but consistently come back to either the same watch or nothing as it does need to really pull me in and I have to consider my budget.  Great thing about it is I think I appreciate and love what I already have even more.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega Male View Post
 

I do like the blue dial 40mm Speedy from Basel this year. On a less-showy (brown) strap, that could be very versatile.

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

I wouldn't mind seeing it on a brown strap just to see how it comes off, but I'm fine with the navy strap.  

 

To @Dino944's point earlier, they seem to do far too many Speedmasters, the majority of which I wouldn't even consider.  That said, doing so many can mean that you can get one or two right from time to time.  The FOIS is the one new Speedmaster I would buy and this looks based off that in a lot of way.  It's got the same hands, same size (a great thing) and probably also the use again of sapphire crystal which is usually a "no-no" for purists but which I prefer as it seems to make the watch look more polished.  Of course Omega had to go with the lollipop seconds hand which I can see them milking a bit going forward since the Spectre Seamaster.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by culverwood View Post

I was scanning the Rolex offerings from a major UK second hand dealer Watchfinder and was surprised by the numbers of certain watches for sale:

Datejust 128
Daytona 101
Day Date 60
Yacht Master 55
GMT Master 49
Submariner 43
Explorer II 38
Air King 28
Sea Dweller 19
Milgauss 16
Deep Sea 12
Explorer 10
Sky Dweller 8

I am not sure of the numbers sold of each type but the large number of Daytonas surprised me as did the relatively small number of Submariners. I took it that possibly people get rid of their Daytonas but hang on to their Submariners. Just some Friday afternoon musing.

 

Perhaps price and popularity are at play.  Daytonas go for notably more from I can tell and the Submariner seems to be one of the most popular watches ever.

 

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktown View Post
 

Just got the BLNR yesterday. Maiden voyage today. First Rolex.


 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

Along with my other watch.

 

 

 

Congratulations!  Enjoy it!

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Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre, Baume & Mercier and more)