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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre, Baume & Mercier and more) - Page 341

post #5101 of 5777
The one to the far left looks awesome.
post #5102 of 5777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texasmade View Post

Just looking at those 2 watches, I'd go with the PP. It looks more dressier although the VC chrono is certainly pretty dressy.

By dressy, I meant something that I can wear under the cuff of my shirt to the office. Also not too bulky, ostentatious etc. So the thickness and dial size matters. Perhaps this's a better comparison vs the VC.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post
 

I think it's pretty great in some ways - I like VC as a brand, I like that it's not an oversized lump, I like that it's steel and those cow horns are distinctive and cool.  But, I suspect that its value will be more in its rarity than anything else: I have no issues with the idea of a chronograph as a dressy watch, and VC has plenty of precedent.  But, in that price range, with those elegant horns, and a watch that's clearly sized and pitched for a more formal purpose, actually steel seems wrong.  Also, I'm not sure the cow horns even work with the chrono - one too many things going on visually? A chrono with a cleaner case, or the horns on a simple dial with small seconds, perhaps?  Sometimes designers are too clever for their own good.

 

For that money, a mint used platinum Patek would make more sense inherently.  3940, 5146, quite a few choices.  Though I make no sense either and would have to have a Datograph.

I never really thought of that since my preference at this price point (always) will be precious metal. This is the first time that steel has presented itself as an 'option'. If it're a regular production model, and steel is on option, i'd still go with white precious metal.

 

A platinum in mint condition with full-set may be a stretch at this price. The Datograph is a stunning watch imo. Though one of my 'critiques' with Lange is that they design the watches to be larger (and thicker) without adding any utility. There's a thorough discussion about this earlier in this forum.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belligero View Post


Given your preferences, I'd say the 3940 without a doubt.

The steel Vacheron chronograph seems nice enough, but there's no way I'd choose a modern watch that says "Hodinkee" on the back over what I'd say is one of the final examples of a proper classic Patek Philippe for the same-ish money. The desirability-of-steel thing may apply to the genuinely rare 1940s and 1950s watches that are so heavily touted in the auction world, but it's meaningless artifice in a current-production watch, and could quickly lose whatever cachet it has if it becomes trendier to put a fancy movement in a steel case.

Look at it from a manufacturer's perspective, especially in the slow current market: "I can get free hype and move some inventory by slapping a few high-end movements into low-cost steel cases? Done." Really, what do they have to lose? If it doesn't sell, they can just buy back the inventory and re-use the expensive bits in something else. Limited editions don't mean anything these days, either. I'll take 18K or platinum for a dressy watch over steel every time, thanks.

Though I think Patek has become very complacent lately, the 3940 is among the last of the line for its well-drawn designs. I'm not a fan at all of the 5146 or the 5140; like many of their newer watches, it's painfully obvious that they were drafted on the cheap by someone lacking in skill using a commodity-box computer, and are extremely unlikely be as desirable as their predecessors as time goes on.

It's all downhill after the 3940; if you like it, then I'd say get one while they're still available for similar money as their inferior and charmless successors, and take good care of it. It's a beautiful and perfected watch that's as trend-proof as these things get, and it'll be sought-after long after that Hodinkee-edition chronograph been forgotten.

Agree. I think the 5140 was a step backwards but the 5327 is very nice and a deserved successor to the 3940 imo. But for the price, I'd rather get the 3940 and (later) a 5170.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post
 

Buy what you have/had your heart set on and you will not be disappointed.  I like VC and sometimes they represent a great value relative to other brands.  Personally, I don't like limited editions that are for watch related stores, be it Wempe, Hodinkee, Cellini etc.  While the dial on this Hodinkee dial model is cool, I'd rather the watch had no affiliation with them.   Personally, I have mixed feelings about the overall design even in the standard versions.   The movement wouldn't be an issue for me, as they have used it in the past, and until a few years back, even Patek was relying on base movements from Lemania to power their 5070 chronograph and 3970 perpetual chronograph.

 

I don't mind a steel case with a high end movement, but in a sense I wouldn't buy it if the main reason was for the hope that its limited run with help it maintain or increase in value.  I see little true value in it.  Yes, rarity means something to many people, but sometimes I wonder how long it will take people to say, wait a minute, I could have the watch in rose gold (or whatever other metal for less than the steel)...screw it I'll take it in gold and watch the sort of artificially created value of the steel model fall.   Also don't compare it to rare pieces from PP, VC, AP from the 1940s when maybe only 4 pieces were made in steel and only 2 are known to exist.  Of the 36 Hodink pieces who knows how many will just go in safes ... so even with very low production, it won't have the true rarity or almost unobtainability of vintage pieces.

 

If I were looking for a VC chronograph and it did not have to be new, I might seek out one of their previous Historiques chronograph such as this with these classic VC lugs.  This also uses a Lemania base movement, and is based on a model from their past.  This one is 37mm and it wears very nicely on most people.  Not too small, but not overly large...so if one wants to use it as a dress watch it straddles the line of sport and dress nicely.  There were several versions YG, YG black dial, PT silver dial, PT black dial, PT salmon dial etc.

Image result for Vacheron constantin historiques chronograph 

 

The 3940 is a great watch with a classic design.  I think what can be tough it comparing a perpetual calendar to a chronograph.  The perpetual generally has a more formal look, while a chronograph has a more sporting nature.  Perhaps you need to consider how you dress for work or weekends and which type of piece would best fit your lifestyle.  Wishing you luck with whatever you decide.  

From my understanding, I've a lot of admiration for Vacheron and I think they make awesome watches (not withstanding the fact they're part of a conglomerate). But their resale value pales in comparison to say Rolex, Patek and (perhaps ?) Lange. So unless the design or some other feature is really distinctive, I'll likely pass-over a new Vacheron.

 

limited run with help it maintain or increase in value

Agree

 

I see little true value in it

Agree. The only reason to choose steel with a high-end movement is rarity. In this Hodinkee offering, there're 36 in steel. But what's to stop another LE of the same model (maybe with slight changes to the dial) in steel down the track? If you over-do a good thing, eventually the market will wake up.

 

On this point do you think the obsession with vintage steel models will continue?

 

A VC wasn't on my radar until the Hodinkee one popped up. Regardless, I'd like to get a chronograph at some point (after a perp). When the time comes, i'll evaluate the options and maybe canvass the forum's opinion. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krish the Fish View Post

My grail watch is a 5970R Patek grand complication but naturally when it comes to actually being able to have the cash to afford one, I doubt it'll be anywhere near my price range (as if it is now). One can dream though, right? Like having a LF on my watch wish list.

Indeed. Everything starts with a dream...a goal to aim for. A lot of people on this forum have collections that is worth much more than your (or my) grail watch. It's only that i value quality over the size of a collection and I prefers to go 'big-ish' or not at all.

 

Thanks for your feedback everyone. I've learnt so much from reading this forum and it's a credit to everyone who contribute regularly. I felt good that people who are far more qualified and experts in the field validated my feeling about this. 

post #5103 of 5777
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belligero View Post


There could be a minor 50th anniversary cosmetic alteration to the Sea-Dweller, but I'd be pretty surprised if they did any big changes to such a recent model.

An updated 41-mm 3235-movement Datejust in steel to replace the DJ II is guaranteed in the near future, though it would be better at 39 mm; don't forget that the two-tone DJ II was eliminated last year as the new 18K-and-steel Datejust 41 went into production. Those 32XX movements are going to eventually work their way across the entire range as the 31XX inventory gets used up. A beer next time we're both in London says that it'll be the oversized steel DJ that gets the new movement next, though I'd be quite happy to be proven wrong and get something less predictable. wink.gif

I think I've seen more current-model proper 36 mm DJs than DJ IIs, but the market seems a bit more favourable to more-discreet watches here in Scandinavia. (Not just with watches, either — the done thing with high-performance cars among locals is to de-badge them; it's literally the exact opposite of putting "M", "RS" or "AMG" logos on a regular model.)

 

IF they discontinue the SD for a new model, then logically I can see them making a "mid size" between Sub and Deep Sea as the more differentiated replacement.  But you're right that it's still a big "if" - I was just responding to the rumour.  From a cynical marketing perspective it would make sense, but I've no idea how the SD has actually been selling.  Maybe it ain't broke, but if it is, that would be the obvious solution.

 

And I misunderstood you on the DJII: I thought you were suggesting they're replace it with a smaller one.  That I can't quite see. Might they add 39mm to the other seventy-five sizes?  Perhaps.  And rolling out the new movement, no doubt either way.

post #5104 of 5777
I'm happy with my low cost SD wink.gif

post #5105 of 5777
Thread Starter 

FAKE! :tounge:

post #5106 of 5777
I wish I could take better photos, though.
post #5107 of 5777
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWraith View Post

I'm happy with my low cost SD wink.gif


great piece, there's something about the rugged sensibilities that mark a true tool watch - something that is not really found on rolex watches these days.
post #5108 of 5777
Quote:
Originally Posted by AriGold View Post

great piece, there's something about the rugged sensibilities that mark a true tool watch - something that is not really found on rolex watches these days.

Explorer 2 has it I think.
post #5109 of 5777
^
Agreed, plus the Sea-Dweller, Explorer and OP aren't exactly delicate flowers, either.

And with the partial exception of the change to ceramic bezels, which don't appear to be breaking too often anyway, the entire range of watches and movements has never been tougher.

Mind you, I'm still not a fan of the polished links on the GMT II, athough they don't make the watch any less durable. :|
post #5110 of 5777
Tried on a Hulk yesterday for the first time. Shouldn't have done that.
post #5111 of 5777
Quote:
Originally Posted by benf View Post
 

From my understanding, I've a lot of admiration for Vacheron and I think they make awesome watches (not withstanding the fact they're part of a conglomerate). But their resale value pales in comparison to say Rolex, Patek and (perhaps ?) Lange. So unless the design or some other feature is really distinctive, I'll likely pass-over a new Vacheron.

 

Agree. The only reason to choose steel with a high-end movement is rarity. In this Hodinkee offering, there're 36 in steel. But what's to stop another LE of the same model (maybe with slight changes to the dial) in steel down the track? If you over-do a good thing, eventually the market will wake up.

 

On this point do you think the obsession with vintage steel models will continue?

Obviously, the main thing  to do is purchase a piece you truly love.  As for resale, unless you are purchasing at a boutique, you can probably get a far more significant discount on a new VC than on a complicated Patek (new or used).  So on some level that offsets resale value.  In addition, the VC I suggested you look at has been out of production for probably more than a decade.  Its not depreciating any more, in fact they have been appreciating in recent years. 

 

I agree, there is nothing to stop them from making a slightly different piece for Wempe or some other high end dealer.  If done in very small batches it make not affect the value of the first version, unless of course the changes in a second or a third version (even if just cosmetic) are viewed as an improvement in its appearance or design (which could then reduced the desirability of the early version).  But whether its worth it for a manufacturer to do that only time will tell.  There is generally a better profit margin on watches with cases made in precious metals. 

 

As for the obsession with vintage steel models, vintage watches are a very different than modern pieces.  They weren't built to put in safes and wait for values to increase, they were worn, damaged, lost...etc.  So really nice pieces from the 1960s and earlier are quite rare and fetch astronomical prices when they come up for auction.  Today, every time Patek, AP, VC, Lange etc make a special piece, collectors put them in safes and wait for values to go up.  So in a sense there will not be the same true rarity and shortage of high end mint condition pieces from the last 10-15 years. There are probably loads of them tucked away that will go to auction if values on a certain piece start to go through the roof.  

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post #5113 of 5777
Obscure website devoted to men's fashion? It was written up in the NY Times!
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Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre, Baume & Mercier and more)