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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre, Baume & Mercier and more) - Page 32post #466 of 57623/4/16 at 7:11ampost #467 of 57623/4/16 at 7:53ampost #468 of 57623/4/16 at 8:50amQuote:Originally Posted by BostonHedonist
I mean I suspect they would sell even more if they could offer Pepsi on steel models. It's a small wonder why they don't. So either they withhold the Pepsi bezel on steel to make wg more coveted, or because of production difficulties in producing steel Pepsi models at scale.
They already sell tons of GMT2s be it with the black bezel or the blue/black bezel. Yes, I'm sure there are lots of people who would like to have a Pepsi at a steel price. However, if they offer it in steel, it would kill the sales of the WG model. Why buy the $30K+ version when you can buy one that looks just like it for around $9K? Not to mention, I suspect in that price range the WG GMT's sales are already limited. So yes, its probably about marketing, but they are pretty good and that. Besides, Rolex hasn't offered a steel GMT with a Pepsi dial and they certainly aren't hurting in the sales department.post #469 of 57623/4/16 at 9:02amQuote:Originally Posted by Dino944
They already sell tons of GMT2s be it with the black bezel or the blue/black bezel. Yes, I'm sure there are lots of people who would like to have a Pepsi at a steel price. However, if they offer it in steel, it would kill the sales of the WG model. Why buy the $30K+ version when you can buy one that looks just like it for around $9K? Not to mention, I suspect in that price range the WG GMT's sales are already limited. So yes, its probably about marketing, but they are pretty good and that. Besides, Rolex hasn't offered a steel GMT with a Pepsi dial and they certainly aren't hurting in the sales department.
An exclusive bezel certainly would help secure sales of a white gold model. But I'd still take any wager that the failure rate of Pepsi bezels is significantly higher than that of the BLNR.post #470 of 57623/4/16 at 10:07ampost #471 of 57623/4/16 at 10:16amQuote:
Whether they limit the Pepsi bezel to garner interest in the WG model, or whether they limit it to the WG model because they can only make a certain number of Pepsi bezels and its easier to supply it to a lower production model, or a combination of the 2, it makes little difference. As stated before, they already sell a ton of steel Rolex watches, its their "Bread and butter." Of roughly the 10 homes closest to mine, 4 of of us husbands have Rolex watches - 1 tutone DJ, and 3 steel ceramic GMTs (my BLNR and 2 black bezel models). So I don't worry that Rolex isn't selling enough steel watches, or that they worry about needing to sell more GMTs. Oh, and there is only one neighbor with an Omega Planet Ocean.post #472 of 57623/4/16 at 11:19ampost #473 of 57623/4/16 at 11:31amThread Starter
1. I don't hate the rootbeer. And it's the one Rolex sports watch that to me actually looks better on a strap.
2. If there's a retro model, the Coke seems sensible, but I think Rolex are way too skilled in building anticipation to roll one out just a year or two after the Pepsi
3. A different dial or hand colour is a more likely increment, I suspect.
I don't hate the idea of a ceramic Speedy either, and quite like the DSOM. This is nice too, but I couldn't help thinking when I saw one, that it was quite an odd thing to make a ceramic watch and then fiddle around to make the colour look a bit like metal. Now I can't unthink that.post #474 of 57623/4/16 at 12:58pm
Here's a pic of my JLC Master Compressor Memovox. I purchased this in October of 2015 pre-owned on bracelet, and later purchased a JLC deployant with a Master Compressor style strap. My only other watch is an Omega Seamaster 2254. I really like the look of this watch and one thing that drew me to the watch was the unique in-house complication of the alarm. Happy Friday.post #475 of 57623/4/16 at 2:48pmQuote:Originally Posted by mimo
I don't hate the idea of a ceramic Speedy either, and quite like the DSOM. This is nice too, but I couldn't help thinking when I saw one, that it was quite an odd thing to make a ceramic watch and then fiddle around to make the colour look a bit like metal. Now I can't unthink that.
That's the glory of it though! It will shine and look brand new forever. It's almost impossible to scratch without shattering it.
Shattering is the only downside IMO but now that they are using deployant buckles the number of fatalities should stay really low. I've knocked mine pretty good against solid objects with no issues (thank goodness) but am very careful when putting it on and taking it off (I don't have deployant buckle but just waiting for Omega to start selling them. I have straps ready and waiting).
I'm not fond of Omega's value though I must admit. They just drop like a rock once opened and even 40% off on grey market with warranty is easy to find. I only paid $7300 for a $12,000 msrp watch new with stamped warranty card. All my Rolex' have either went up in value or hovered right at original purchase price which is a lot more favorable when thinking about purchasing a high end watch. I don't have any "real" high end watches (PP, AP, ALS) yet but am favoring the PP 5164/5167 for my first large purchase.post #476 of 57623/4/16 at 3:55pmQuote:
I imagine coke would be the most difficult and exclusive of all. Here we are dealing with the lightest and darkest color available, rather than letting blue be the middle ground. There is no additive color blending process to make that at scale in ceramic. Clearly that would be reserved for platinum.post #477 of 57623/4/16 at 4:04pm
Re: the Globemaster, while I too find that latest version distasteful, the standard steel version isn't so bad. It's not a watch I'd consider, but I think it's getting too hard a time here and were it to say "Rolex" on the dial it would be getting a pass like a few of them seem to get because they say exactly that on the dial.
Quote:Originally Posted by scottcw
I am considering adding a chrono to my modest collection. A vintage Speedmaster is the obvious choice, but I would appreciate suggestions of bargain alternatives. Not cheap, just good value and perhaps off the beaten path / under the radar. Preference to watches that have an outer bezel like the Speedy.
Thanks in advance.
Well it's certainly not vintage and not necessarily off the beaten path that much, but one watch that I don't believe was suggested was the numbered edition Speedmaster:
There's a lot that I like about this watch. For starters I love that it's under 40mm. I also love the dagger hands. The asymmetry of the smaller hands is nice too. And while their use of crystal instead of hezalite is an issue for a lot of "purists", it's a choice that from the photos I've seen make the watch look "richer" if you will. You can also pick one up at a nice discount as well. For me this is the best "new" Speedmaster they make when you factor everything in.Quote:
Ever since Hodinkee did that recent piece on the 3705 I've been interested in one of these. While the ceramic 3705 is likely never going to happen, I'd take a stainless steel version so long as the day register is in German and the plots have that vintage yellow patina. Nice recommendation.Quote:
I like that one as well, though it'd have to be the Vintage Deep Sea Chronograph with the fauxtina.Quote:Originally Posted by Journeyman
The Heuer Carrera is also a classic chrono and, while is doesn't have a bezel, it has a scale (albeit without numbers) that runs around the outside of the dial. There are some beautiful Carreras out there. The late 1990s re-edition is also nice, in my opinion, particularly the silver-dial version.
The Breitling Navitimer looks a lot "busier" because of the slide-rule and various timing functions, but it's also a great, vintage chrono and you can get good examples pretty easily.
Excellent suggestion with the CS3110. I've been eyeing up both that and the CS3111, though the latter for me is perhaps a bit too "samey" as a Speedmaster which I definitely plan on getting one day. What's great about these is that they seem to use a classic movement that I would assume would be easy enough to service. More than that though I think the styling is great along with the size of the watch. What's more you can still find them in relatively great shape and for half the price of a vintage Carrera while still getting pretty much vintage yourself.Quote:Originally Posted by BostonHedonist
I really can't decide how I feel about Nomos. Been considering adding one of the 35mm Orions to my box. I like the simplicity and utility of the design. But then a voice in my head tells me they're nothing special. Can someone give me a reason to get excited about Nomos?
I completely understand where you're coming from. I've had the same thoughts along with that same voice in my head. @Dino944 gives you great advise in that you're probably already answering your own question. I would say that one reason not to get "excited" about Nomos is that you can find a similar looking watch that is much nicer. For example I'd much rather have a Saxonia than an Orion. Of course there's a huge price difference there and everyone has their own budget (sadly I'm on the Nomos end, but I'm eyeing up a nice 1815), but at the end of the day you'll probably feel much better about getting something you feel more passionate about.Quote:Originally Posted by BostonHedonist
To be honest, it's been a while since I looked at Nomos. I took a look at one of the worldtimers, before the blue-dial version came out. It was very clear to me from that piece that these were watchmakers who prided function over form, to whatever degree.
But, you know, there's something about them. In a world of watches that either have a full pedigree and a price to match, or are eagerly trying to appear as something more than they are, Nomos have a really acute sense of personal identity. How else could they hope to occupy that difficult mid-market terrain? While that part of me is saying these are a bit "simple," another part of me is saying "well that's the point. Can YOU see any real, major design flaw?"
For comparison, I never "fell in love" with my Seiko Shogun, but I am very happy I purchased it. It's comfortable, decently finished, durable and fills a need in my wrist wardrobe. I actually wear it much more often than I had anticipated. I am thinking one of these Bauhaus examples from Nomos might fill a similar need. Call it the "dress beater," if such a term isn't already an oxymoron. But heck, I don't wear a suit often and they are attractive watches.
Just, hm, nothing special...
I suppose it's time to go handle a few more and see.Quote:Originally Posted by BostonHedonist
Very nice frills.
Meanwhile, at the other end of the spectrum...
Unable to brush the brand off, I dove into Nomos a bit further and went and saw a few today. Oddly enough, the models I thought I'd like, didn't really call to me. However, I did rather like the Metro (sans-indicator).
In my research, I learned about Nomos' brand new movement, the "Neomatik." If I've understood correctly, it is their first 100% in-house automatic movement (though they may have been fully in-house as early as 2014 when they launched their own escapement). And it's only 3.2mm thick.
Not a bad looking movement at all. This makes for some thin cases as well. To commemorate this new movement, they launched a new family of watches, the "Minimatik."
It is a fun piece. Very simple with a sort of restrained whimsy. Small at 35.5mm x 8.8mm. The first editions are nearly all sold out online and at boutiques (though I suppose the right concierge could put in the footwork for one so inclined). Supposedly, only 3001 examples (it's named caliber DUW 3001) with the new movement were made as part of the "first editions." That's something I may have liked for the collectability as much as the smile I get looking at the playful face of it.
Right then. Moving on...
Nomos for me is a "fashion" watch. Not in the sense of say an actual fashion house watch like... I don't know, Gucci. It's a fashion watch in that their pieces are fashionable. Perhaps I'll get some flack for saying this, but they're the Swatch of today from a style perspective with the obvious difference being they're making a much more "serious" watch. That said and despite what I noted above, I do love Nomos. I wasn't as impressed in the flesh, but that was a brief one-time affair and I think pretty much every model looks great. They also occupy a space that most other watches don't in that "fashion" piece, in a more casual sense, that most other pieces consumers tend to buy don't.
Were I to get a Nomos I'd go for one of the more limited editions. As some may notice now I tend to prefer limited editions, but in this case it's more about the watches being different than their production numbers. You seem to have moved on from the Orion, but they've done some interesting Orions. I'm sure the Friesennerz will only draw scorn on this forum, but for me it's an interesting edition draws from my love for Spring outerwear/raincoats (yellow in particular) and my love for navy blue. I also think the 1989 and Grau versions are nice. Or if you're so inclined you might like the special edition Timeless Midnight Orion. Same goes for the Tetra as there are older models that for me had great color combinations. Or take to a slightly lesser extent the Doctors without Borders editions. Where I'm going with this is that I think Nomos could occupy a space in a collection, or perhaps in my "collection", if one approached it from this perspective.
The Metro is a Nomos I really like, but again is very much a fashion watch. It's very cool though and definitely quite distinctive. It too is one of the watches I would consider most were I to get a Nomos. I think if any model says "Nomos" the most it's certainly the Metro.
The one Nomos though that I think could and perhaps is more considered by most is in some ways a little less "Nomos" than the rest. That's the Zurich Weltzeit. Don't get me wrong, it's definitely got a Nomos look to it. It's just that it's more like other watches out there. In the flesh it was the best Nomos I handled. I was more interested in other models going in, but this for me looked the best in person. I think it's a distinctive GMT watch that can really work as less a fashion piece than the majority of the rest of Nomos' collection. And while I noted that it's more like other watches out there, it's still also distinctive on it's own. You can also get one at a notable enough discount as I've seen them for about 33% off full retail in excellent condition. Better yet you can probably get one with what should be the preferred "Heimat" on the eggshell white dial for even less.
Despite my commentary above, Nomos is for me a brand that I don't see myself getting into just yet. For every Nomos I like, there's always another piece that speaks more to me whether it's at the same price point or notably higher which means that my money is better put towards one of those watches as oppposed to a Nomos. Whatever you decide best of luck with your decision and please do share if you buy one. Oh, and make sure you change the strap if you get one. Cheap or not, the straps themselves look cheap to me.Quote:Originally Posted by pmeis
I'm a huge fan of Nomos (and German watches in general) and if my practicality didn't get the best of me, i'd probably own a few. Before I really got bit by the watch bug, I wore and older 35mm Tangente for about 3 years until a couple of Summer's ago. That summer I got hit by the bug and starting venturing into owning more than one watch. One of the best ones was the Ahoi Atlantik. I really loved it, but eventually I just decided that the lugs made it wear just a bit too big for my just over 7 inch wrist.
After another year or so of buying and selling, Nomos announced the 38.5mm Metro shown above. I still had the Tangente, but after wearing mostly 38mm to Luminor sized cases, the 35mm Tangente was very strange to wear, it just looked too small. IMO, the 38mm Nomos watches are the perfect size for their look, but unless they have the date, they really suffer from small movement syndrome. The sub seconds just gets too close to the hands and the majority of the 38mm dials look unbalanced.
I ended up ordering the Metro the week after it was announced last year and picked it up at the end of October. I also ended up with the Ludwig Neomatik, thinking it would make a perfect dress watch (which after selling my Tangente last summer I didn't have anything near suitable). I actually ended up acquiring my Neomatik and Metro within about a week of each other. After a month or so, I decided that I absolutely had to have the blue Oyster Perpetual (114300) and at that point the only watch in my fold that didn't serve a real purpose was the Metro. (My PAM was casual, the Neomatik was dress and the OP would be an everyday wear).
Between the PAM and my GO Seventies, I've really only been wearing the Neomatik when life calls for a suit, which for me is not very often. If it was bigger, I think I'd wear it more often, it just wears so delicately compared to the other two. Your post inspired me to put it on today and I think I'll try to do a better job of working it in on a regular basis. In many ways this is the best looking piece I own and the one I wear the least. The Minimatik referenced above is going to seem very small after wearing a GMT, but at the same time its probably not dressy enough for more dressy times. The Metro will look less foreign on the wrist coming from a steel sports watch, but of course will fee quite a bit different.
I'm hopeful that Nomos will release some more 38mm watches that are upgraded to the newer movements at Basel, I think it really help them extend the brand further. Anyway, I'm not sure what the point of this is other than just to provide some thoughts of somebody who has gone through a number of other brands. I think I'll always have at least one Nomos in the collection though, the purity of their design really speaks to me more than just about any other company out there.
For the TL;DR crowd, here are some pics:
@BostonHedonist Thanks for inspiring me to wear this today.
Nomos from the past:
Metro is a right pain to photograph though:
I remember seeing this one on Watchrecon. So was this moved for the GO?
Nice read. Thanks for sharing.Quote:
While not remotely opposed to asymmetry, I'm not a fan of this one. That said it's distinctive and while they may have made their fair share I've not seen one before. While I would buy one with a bracelet if you can, I'd immediately ditch the bracelet for a nice strap.
While the JLC Masters can be a bit plain and not the most distinctive watches out there, I actually find myself drawn to them. For the price points I've seen I think they're a much nicer watch than some of the preferred "competitors" that might get thrown out as alternatives. I like the classic looks about them. Owning a Geophysic though I can't help but think adding a Master would be overkill. Still an Ultra Thin, particularly an Ultra Thin Moon, would be enough of a variance. The problem is that when I think moon phase I think Lange. Then again I think almost entirely Lange every day right now.
While the current GMTs don't do it for me (not a fan of the number font on the bezel), the Blueberry coloring is amazing. Love that combo and for me it blows the BLNR out of the water. If the previous GMT had been made in this color I'd probably buy one today.post #478 of 57623/4/16 at 4:06pmQuote:Originally Posted by alford78
I'm not fond of Omega's value though I must admit. They just drop like a rock once opened and even 40% off on grey market with warranty is easy to find. I only paid $7300 for a $12,000 msrp watch new with stamped warranty card. All my Rolex' have either went up in value or hovered right at original purchase price which is a lot more favorable when thinking about purchasing a high end watch. I don't have any "real" high end watches (PP, AP, ALS) yet but am favoring the PP 5164/5167 for my first large purchase.
Don't Omegas seem to hold their heavily discounted value though? Assuming you get the right one of course.post #479 of 57623/4/16 at 5:04pmI love my Omega, but I definitely have no delusions of it holding its monetary value, especially compared to Rolex. But like most, I didn't buy it as an investment at all.
There are a good number of things that Rolex exceeds at, and holding their value is definitely one of their strengths.post #480 of 57623/4/16 at 6:11pmQuote:
Yes they do from what little research I've done searching for some of their older models.
I'd never buy a watch that I intended to wear in my daily rotation based on it holding a monetary value but it is disappointing how cheap one can get an Omega from grey dealers compared to Omega Boutiques. I went to the nearest boutique to try on the DSOTM and GSOTM. They both blew me away in the metal (ceramic lol) compared to pics I'd seen and they even truly impressed my wife as well. It's just ashamed that the Boutiques can't budge on their MSRP pricing. I had a $12,000 watch on my wrist at the Boutique and then ordered mine while still walking around the mall for $7300. Had it on my wrist the next day so it's just odd to me being my first experience purchasing an Omega I guess. I bought my first Rolex 16610 as a gift to myself for graduation from an AD at near full price then the bug hit and learned to buy from grey dealers which could provide warranties and save even more. But even buying grey market Rolex isn't anywhere near the depreciation of Omega. The only thing I truly don't like about the Omegas I've had experience with is the bracelet clasps. It's like they are 30 years behind the market but I like straps on Omegas so no issue for me.
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