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Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre, Baume & Mercier and more)
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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre, Baume & Mercier and more) - Page 170

post #2536 of 3487
Originally Posted by IGotId View Post

I had recently come to the conclusion that 39-41mm is the perfect size for my wrist. I had even 'decided' that my 'final' 2 watches would be 2 of the following 3: a ceramic Daytona, RO 15300/15202, or the upcoming VC Overseas. I made a 'retail therapy' trip to NYC this past weekend to check out various boutiques in general & specifically to check out the 15202, FPJ Chronometre Bleu, GO's offerings, & hopefully the new Yachtmaster out in person. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Unfortunately the FPJ boutique did not have the bleu in stock & I was not able to find the YM. The 15202 was simply amazing on the wrist but I'm having a hell of a hard time justifying spending that kind of coin on a single watch. I was able to try on a watch I've long admired but have wished was much smaller: the GO Senator Observer. It's even more amazing in person & I've found myself lusting for that watch since trying it on. However I've had a bad experience with the last 44mm watch I bought, an Omega Speedy 9300, a watch I found to be very bulky & heavy when worn on the bracelet (less so on a strap). I find myself rationalizing the GO by trying to convince myself that it'll wear smaller & comfortable as it's a thinner watch, that being said I would be purchasing it on a bracelet as I like the flexibility of being able to wear a watch on a strap or bracelet.

I've attached pics, what do you all think? (BTW, my current 'collection' includes a BLNR, Reverso ultrathin duoface bleu, & a Speedy 3572.50 Mitsukoshi conversion)

The standout on that list is the ultra-thin Royal Oak; I seriously love that watch even though I know I'd scuff the crap out of it in no time as a father-to-be. A fellow watch obsessive I met in Trieste had the ref. 15002 version, and it confirmed my impression that a Jumbo of any kind is definitely something to get if I ever grow up. It's more expensive than the Overseas, but I think it's money better-spent and it'll likely hold its value better. That FPJ is another favourite that I'd currently have little opportunity to wear.

But in the meantime, a thought on the Daytona: have you considered the 16520? I'd thought about it for years, and it seems to be an unusually good time to get one... so I did, and I'd have no hesitation recommending someone with an interest in them to do likewise instead of buying the ceramic version.

It's just as good as I'd hoped, too. What I appreciate most about the watch is how it offers a perfect combination of vintage charm and modern no-stress wearability. It also eliminates my least-favourite element of the newer models, which is their fully-polished lugs. While this probably doesn't seem like a big deal, I find that it makes a significant difference on the wrist.

Also, I'm still not entirely convinced by the ceramic bezel on the 116500LN, as I think it's a bit of a step backwards both aesthetically and functionally. Obviously, it's the hot thing right now, but the hype will soon fade as the watch inevitably becomes more common.

Something else to think about: while I'm not a big off-brand-parts proponent, it's worth mentioning that it's possible to swap in an aftermarket ceramic bezel onto 116520, which will keep the steel one looking brand-new and give the exact same look as the 116500LN in the black-dial option. There are already a few of these indistinguishable modded ones around, which is sure to affect the cachet of the real ceramic one.

Personally, I find that the 16520 as a complete package is somehow not only the sportiest, but also the most refined among self-winding Daytona models — especially when it comes to the dial. Here's a shot of mine on the watchmaker's bench:

image credit: horologer

It also offers a unique movement that's by far the most thoroughly-reworked example of ébauche-based production from Rolex; this skilled-labour-intensive transformation is the reason that the steel Daytona was so hard to come by during its 1988-2000 production run. Although it's technically inferior to the 4130, it's still a damn good movement, and there's no doubt that it's far more collectible.

116500LNs will steadily become easier to get. By the time most folks will be able to get a hold of one, it won't be that special or rare — though it'll still be a great watch. Conversely, good 16520s will become more and more difficult to come by as time goes on, and it'll always be a watch that's very uncommon in real life.

Lately, I'm noticing a few steel 4030-movement Daytona examples for sale in great shape at decent prices. If you're thinking Daytona, I figure you have nothing to lose by getting one now instead of waiting for a ceramic version to become available.

And as much as I'm infatuated with the 16520, I'd say that that either all-steel one is a good buy right now:

photo by me

photo by Loevhagen

(I got some tips on how to take less-sucky camera photos today. teacha.gif)
post #2537 of 3487
Originally Posted by TheWraith View Post

I've found 36-42mm being suitable for me, with 38-40 being my sweet spot.

Exact same for me. The largest watches I feel comfortable wearing are the Panerai Radiomir (42 mm) and the IWC Portuguese Chrono (40.9 mm). I don't think I would spend a lot of money on a watch over 40 mm. The two I have over that size are cheapies: The Swatch Sistem51 and the Seiko Orange Monster.
post #2538 of 3487

OK, for those who have been following my little journey, I placed my order for the GO Senator Date Moon today with watch-lounge.de (Frank Schuster) via Chrono24. Could have saved the 3.5% fee, perhaps, and dealt with him directly, but as I am new to grey market sales, I decided the extra security was worth it. Chrono24 requires wire transfer of the funds to an escrow account in Luxembourg -- bit of a pain, actually, but minor. I'll let you know how the transaction works out.


Tourneau will take back my trade-in gift card and refund the value of their original offer (by check), which is entirely fair and appreciated. They've actually be great to deal with, and offered me a nice discount, too (10%). But they couldn't come close to the 35% I'm saving off MSRP with Frank and Chrono24. In any case, the Tourneau side of this little journey is done.


Here's a picture of the watch on my wrist at Wempe's, which was willing to come down from the $11,500 MSRP to $10K -- nice, and better than Tourneau, but nothing like the savings from Europe once the VAT is discounted.




I didn't have time today to call ADs in Europe, but I doubt that I would do much better and am at peace with the direction I've taken -- though of course I'll feel even better when I get the watch! Many thanks to everyone here for the great advice and suggestions, including Al over at Armstrong Rockwell. Looking forward to sharing a final pic or two when it arrives ...

post #2539 of 3487
A watch with character. Congrats
post #2540 of 3487
Congratulations. It sounds like you got a good deal. At some point, your time is more valuable than saving an extra couple hundred dollars.
post #2541 of 3487

Congrats on a great watch!  :cheers:

post #2542 of 3487

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
post #2543 of 3487
post #2544 of 3487
Congrats, chanoch. Wear it in good health, sir.

Best4Best...nice Monaco, and I like the cufflinks, too.

@belligero: what's a good example of the 16520 going for these days, in USD? I'm too lazy to shop around, and already own a 116520 smile.gif so mainly just curious.

For me personally, I still really, *really* want to see the ceramic bezel version in the flesh. But who knows when that will happen?

I had just waited so long for Rolex to drop that combo in SS (black bezel / white dial / black subdials). Don't disagree that it could ultimately become far more common-- but at this level, it's all about which particular model really sings to you individually of course. There are actually several recent sports models from them that I find quite appealing these days.

Great pics, btw.
post #2545 of 3487
Thanks, Keith!

Well, prices can be all over the place for these depending on the small details; there's a significant premium for the early variants, which are recognizable by slightly-different bezel markings and dial printing ("floating", "inverted 6", "225 bezel", etc.), oxidized rings ("Patrizzi dial"), and porcelain dials (rare and extremely expensive). I'm certain that they'd all look identical to normal people.

The more-common dial variations seem to go for roughly the same price on the secondary market right now as a 116520 in comparable shape. Condition can of course vary greatly and nice-looking examples do sometimes show up for not much more than rough ones; it pays to be patient. Reasonable deals on well-taken-care-of watches are certainly going to more difficult to come by. By the way, I don't claim any special insight on this stuff — I just use watchrecon.com to see what forum guys are asking.

But I figure that if someone wants a modern but not-too-modern watch that's both practical enough to wear and has good collectibility potential, it's one of the better bets out there.

Obviously, the in-house movement version is no slouch, either; I know a few watchmakers who wear it. Henrik definitely makes his look good:

image credit: horologer

The ceramic is also pretty cool, but it may lack the same classic appeal in in the long run.

Agreed that there have been a few nice new options in the sports range lately. cheers.gif
post #2546 of 3487
I'm certain that they'd all look identical to normal people.

Ha ha! Well, we just aren't normal, are we?
post #2547 of 3487
I saw the new ceramic panda Daytona in WoS Regent St. yesterday (in a glass case). Looked very nice to me, but I haven't taken much notice of Daytonas up to now. Apparently there's a 5 year waiting list!
post #2548 of 3487
If you really need the new Daytona this is the uplift in London from Watch Club!
RRP £ 8,250
OUR PRICE £ 14,750
post #2549 of 3487
I'm currently traveling in Italy. I will pass through Rome and Amsterdam before returning to US. I have heard Italy can be a great place to buy because of the higher VAT, but I have no experience with purchasing here. I am looking to pick up a no date sub if I can find one. I am familiar with Gassan's in Amsterdam, and Haussmann&Co appear to be the Rome AD. Anyone have any advice or prior experience? Thanks in advance.
post #2550 of 3487
Originally Posted by Keith T View Post

Ha ha! Well, we just aren't normal, are we?
Well, you know how the saying goes: "Everyone's normal until you get to know them."

About that ceramic Daytona, it's possible to easily change the look of yours if you want to, and save some wear on the original bezel. mwink[1].gif

As the 16520 and 116520 have the exact same bezel, it works on either one, too:

image credit: fskywalker

image credit: londonwatchhk

image credit: paul wheatcroft

I'm not so keen on modified watches myself, but I truly don't have an issue with someone doing this. (While the bezel isn't Rolex-produced, isn't counterfeit either, as it doesn't have their trademark on it.) As the generic part is relatively inexpensive, I don't really see a downside here.

Though personally, the more I see the ceramic look, the more I prefer OG steel.
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Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre, Baume & Mercier and more)