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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre, Baume & Mercier and more) - Page 144post #2146 of 45906/18/16 at 5:52ampost #2147 of 45906/18/16 at 6:35ampost #2148 of 45906/18/16 at 7:51amWell, when you think about it, how many new luxury Swiss watches are made, per year?
The sjx site recently had a piece on high end Swiss watches - just think, how many tourbillons are made a year? What is the market for them?
It's kind of sobering, but I admit there is a degree of schadenfreude on my part having in the 10 short years I've been interested in watches, watched prices climb, and climb, and climb ...post #2149 of 45906/18/16 at 8:53ampost #2150 of 45906/18/16 at 8:59amThread Starterpost #2151 of 45906/18/16 at 9:26ampost #2152 of 45906/18/16 at 9:48ampost #2153 of 45906/18/16 at 10:01ampost #2154 of 45906/18/16 at 10:02am
Congratulations gentlemen. Enjoy them as I'm sure you will.
@Winot I actually discovered the vintage Milgauss about six months ago and consider it to be a great looking vintage Rolex. Then I unfortunately saw the prices they go for.post #2155 of 45906/18/16 at 10:15amQuote:Originally Posted by michaelvl
I got into Panerai in 2005, the market for the brand was really hot until about 2011 for the historic pieces. For me Richmond and especially Bonati have really made some poor choices that have cause lot of hard core Paneristi's to sell their collections...
Furthermore they diluted the market for historic tritium pieces but offering a truckload of new models all featuring faux tritium dials. Who in their right mind would want to invest in a brand that show time and time again that if you have a rare and desirable piece that has appreciated in value Panerai will just reproduce it and flood the market with it until your piece is basically lost its desirability and appreciation. Not me, never again will I buy another Panerai, especially since they are focusing on a higher price range than 6-7 years ago, and for the same money there are much better watches to choose from.
Certainly interesting to hear from a former Panerai owner who is less than enthralled with them. My AD for other watches was also a Panerai AD and he was always trying to get me into one. I really like the design of some, but back in the day the bulk of them were powered by ETA/Unitas movements that were a bit underwhelming, and having a modest sized wrist I never was that comfortable wearing one.
Sadly, there are numerous offending companies that screw collectors with numerous offerings that are similar to 1 limited edition, because once it sells out fast, they want another fast seller so they offer the same basic piece with different colored trim on the strap and dial thereby diluting the idea of how limited a piece is. AP does this with lots of Offshore pieces and Omega has done this with anniversary moon watches that come out every 5 years or if they find out an astronaut blew his nose while wearing a Speedy. There are lots of other examples...but it astonishes me how people line up for limited editions that look nearly like the last limited edition every year. Or some companies offer boutique editions and if its a hot seller, the only way you can get on a list to get one is if you have paid MSRP at boutiques in the past for average pieces.
Personally, not being an Panerai owner I wish the collectors no ill will, and hopefully, if they bought pieces because they truly loved them (rather than as "Investments" then it won't matter much what the value is today or in 5 years. Its simply my hope that if the company is truly experiencing an down turn in sales, that they (and ADs) will learn from this and appreciate their clients more rather than bleeding them dry at every opportunity.Quote:Originally Posted by BLAUGRANA
Hah. Someone posted an Archie video. I have to say that as someone else noted they get quite old quite fast as they tend to be rather repetitive. For instance this whole market crash business has him doing multiple videos that are quite similar (though that faux press conference was good for a quick laugh). I will say that he does give out some pretty good advice at times.
Interesting topic though. There has been a discussion of a correction for a little while now. I even read that vintage would be protected but now some of the talk post auctions makes it seem like not even all vintage is safe. For me there does seem to be a good amount of inventory out there. I even noted that months ago and I'm still amazed at a site like Crown and Caliber which has the volume of some of Rolex inventory that it does. Of course it differs by model and reference, but there seems to be a lot out there.
One point that Archie made whatever video I watched was that essentially inventory is being dumped to the grey market. This is something that I feel as though I'd already noticed and I wouldn't be surprised if it's true.
Yes, the faux press conference was just ridiculous. And I did't really see why it took him 7 minutes or so to say "Get out of the market Faaaackers!" It was the same message over and over again.
As for market corrections etc. Normal collectors (not speculators) if they bought pieces they really liked, rather than for perceived value/potential for appreciation, then in the end the value today or in 6 months or 5 years won't matter so much. Yes, we all feel better if something maintains value or appreciates, but anyone who has really done their homework knows that most pieces depreciate and its the rare exceptions that appreciate and maintain that appreciation. I've always said, buy a piece you truly love and if it drops in value you wont be disappointed, but if it goes up in value it's an added bonus.Quote:
With grays it depends on the market and their inventory. With dealers, it will depend on if companies reduce prices (Patek and some Richemont companies did about a year ago), or if companies are least are a bit more lax about discounting.Quote:
Well, I guess he is proof that youtube can make almost anyone sort of well known around the globe. Watch one of his videos and you've seen them all. Its entertaining the first or second time...then it gets old really fast. Also, the multiple vidoes about Panerai values and then that faux press conference just made him look silly.Quote:
I don't feel a sense of schadenfreude so much as I hope its a learning lesson to companies, ADs, and grays, to value and be kinder to customers rather than sticking it to them just because they can. I've seen some dealers who still treated their long time customers well even when things were going well for them, and I've seen some who basically felt they were on a never ending ride who would screw long terms clients because they knew they could easily sell hot items to someone else quite quickly.
When I was buying a lot of stuff at one AD and I asked about getting on a list for a hard to get item and the watch manager said, we already have a long list and maybe you should consider hunting for it at another place...I said no problem...I'll take the rest of my purchases elsewhere too...between my father and I that cost them 7 watch sales in the course of 4 years (plus jewelry sales) and several watch sale referrals. I'm in it for the long haul and if building and maintaining a good working relationship means nothing to them when things are good, I'm ok with that, as there is always someone else willing to step in an accept my business.
Looks great congrats and enjoy it!post #2156 of 45906/18/16 at 10:16ampost #2157 of 45906/18/16 at 11:39ampost #2158 of 45906/18/16 at 1:05pmThread StarterThanks a lot chaps...Mr PMW finally joined the Crown Club. Special thanks to Belligero for hooking me up with an amazing deal, then sitting on it for a year while I sued my previous employer to pay for it. Been a tough year, but things are looking up.
Some people would put a down paymnent on a house, or improve their miserable pension provision or the kids' college fund. But this is not the TWAT/SF way. Twelve suits, seven swords (yeah, I like swords, don't judge!), a used car and a Rolex. For the first and last at least, you are collectively to blame.
Still, at least I learned understatement and subtlety in my tastes.
Mostly...post #2159 of 45906/18/16 at 1:09pmThread Starterpost #2160 of 45906/18/16 at 2:34pm
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