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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre, Baume & Mercier and more) - Page 143

post #2131 of 3962
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelvl View Post

Breaking news on Panerai

https://youtu.be/HoJif5A9tFM

biggrin.gif
Is the guy in the video for real? I am honestly asking, his way of presenting is quite entertaining, almost as if he was putting a performance ūü§Ē
post #2132 of 3962
Take anything he says with a pinch of salt. He's sort of notorious in the watch community. It's an act, but the whole enterprise gets old pretty quickly.
post #2133 of 3962
Is that Archie? Link won't load but saw the video yesterday.

He does bring up good points regarding the slowdown. Other people in the industry have also alluded to this, but in a more mild manner.

Pam prices are already down - so no surprise here.
post #2134 of 3962
Quote:
Originally Posted by JezeC View Post

Is that Archie? Link won't load but saw the video yesterday.
 

Yes its Archie.  

post #2135 of 3962
I got into Panerai in 2005, the market for the brand was really hot until about 2011 for the historic pieces. For me Richmond and especially Bonati have really made some poor choices that have cause lot of hard core Paneristi's to sell their collections and leave the brand. I have also sold of almost my entire collection except for one piece, that I probably will keep for good. They really seem to monitor the second hand market and if they find a certain limited edition or historic discontinued piece is hot under collectors, they will all of a sudden create some extra pieces and release them as Out Of Range pieces or release a model that is almost identical under a new reference and dilute it until all the value the collector had, has evaporated.

They also have way to many references in my opinion, some years they released 30+ new models, that in my opinion often made little sense. California dials with dates or logo's on the dial, all sorts of boutique editions, ugh...

Furthermore they diluted the market for historic tritium pieces but offering a truckload of new models all featuring faux tritium dials. Who in their right mind would want to invest in a brand that show time and time again that if you have a rare and desirable piece that has appreciated in value Panerai will just reproduce it and flood the market with it until your piece is basically lost its desirability and appreciation. Not me, never again will I buy another Panerai, especially since they are focusing on a higher price range than 6-7 years ago, and for the same money there are much better watches to choose from.
post #2136 of 3962
Thread Starter 
Yes but apart from that, they're great.
post #2137 of 3962
Happy Friday gents
post #2138 of 3962
This is not a collector's watch but I enjoy it non the less smile.gif
post #2139 of 3962
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelvl View Post

I got into Panerai in 2005, the market for the brand was really hot until about 2011 for the historic pieces. For me Richmond and especially Bonati have really made some poor choices that have cause lot of hard core Paneristi's to sell their collections and leave the brand. I have also sold of almost my entire collection except for one piece, that I probably will keep for good. They really seem to monitor the second hand market and if they find a certain limited edition or historic discontinued piece is hot under collectors, they will all of a sudden create some extra pieces and release them as Out Of Range pieces or release a model that is almost identical under a new reference and dilute it until all the value the collector had, has evaporated.

They also have way to many references in my opinion, some years they released 30+ new models, that in my opinion often made little sense. California dials with dates or logo's on the dial, all sorts of boutique editions, ugh...

Furthermore they diluted the market for historic tritium pieces but offering a truckload of new models all featuring faux tritium dials. Who in their right mind would want to invest in a brand that show time and time again that if you have a rare and desirable piece that has appreciated in value Panerai will just reproduce it and flood the market with it until your piece is basically lost its desirability and appreciation. Not me, never again will I buy another Panerai, especially since they are focusing on a higher price range than 6-7 years ago, and for the same money there are much better watches to choose from.

Well...if someone is selling a 338 (42mm radiomir in titanium) for 3k USD. I'm buying.
post #2140 of 3962

Hah.  Someone posted an Archie video.  I have to say that as someone else noted they get quite old quite fast as they tend to be rather repetitive.  For instance this whole market crash business has him doing multiple videos that are quite similar (though that faux press conference was good for a quick laugh).  I will say that he does give out some pretty good advice at times.

 

Interesting topic though.  There has been a discussion of a correction for a little while now.  I even read that vintage would be protected but now some of the talk post auctions makes it seem like not even all vintage is safe.  For me there does seem to be a good amount of inventory out there.  I even noted that months ago and I'm still amazed at a site like Crown and Caliber which has the volume of some of Rolex inventory that it does.  Of course it differs by model and reference, but there seems to be a lot out there.  

 

One point that Archie made whatever video I watched was that essentially inventory is being dumped to the grey market.  This is something that I feel as though I'd already noticed and I wouldn't be surprised if it's true.  Take the Jaeger Lecoultre Geophysic True Second.  Not too popular a watch from what I can tell anyway, but at the same time I started to see them well available at multiple grey sellers.  In fact one of them had two of them for sale at the same time.  More recently I'm seeing the Geophysic Universal Time pop up at multiple places and at a hefty discount of about 40% as well.  In both cases I'm assuming it's more than just multiple cases of buyer's remorse all of sudden.  I know from what's been said here that a lot of JLCs drop in value, but considering that I'm seeing multiple pieces for sale at the same time and I feel as though they must be getting moved to the grey market.  

 

Despite my two watch purchases I would actually welcome a correction from a "collector" standpoint.  By that I mean that thus far I've only bought the watches with the intention of forever wearing them and with no plans to sell them any time soon.  The same would apply to other watches that I'm interested in and so I would welcome a correction as I could then afford maybe a watch or two that I normally could not or get more of the pieces that I fancy.  The question for me though is assuming we're in a correction period here or soon to be in one, how far do we think we'll see prices drop?  

 

As regards Panerai, I can understand the frustration if one has been collecting them for a while.  I was looking at one of the references that I'm interested and a seller had an Out of Range piece for sale.  I'd never heard of that before.  I would actually welcome it with a few watches from other manufacturers as I have noted I'm a big fan of tribute watches and vintage inspired pieces, some of whom I missed out on in recent years as I simply wasn't into the luxury end when they were released and they've subsequently sold out.  If Panerais go through a big correction as Archie suggests, there are a couple that interest me.  I love the gold hands contrasting with the steel case on a few of the references, though I have to say with the dials being so similar in a fair amount of cases that one might just do the trick.  I would definitely be in for at least one though as I've been considering one anyway.  

post #2141 of 3962
Today I'm wearing Rolex GMT 16700

post #2142 of 3962
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAUGRANA View Post

Hah.  Someone posted an Archie video.  I have to say that as someone else noted they get quite old quite fast as they tend to be rather repetitive.  For instance this whole market crash business has him doing multiple videos that are quite similar (though that faux press conference was good for a quick laugh).  I will say that he does give out some pretty good advice at times.

Interesting topic though.  There has been a discussion of a correction for a little while now.  I even read that vintage would be protected but now some of the talk post auctions makes it seem like not even all vintage is safe.  For me there does seem to be a good amount of inventory out there.  I even noted that months ago and I'm still amazed at a site like Crown and Caliber which has the volume of some of Rolex inventory that it does.  Of course it differs by model and reference, but there seems to be a lot out there.  

One point that Archie made whatever video I watched was that essentially inventory is being dumped to the grey market.  This is something that I feel as though I'd already noticed and I wouldn't be surprised if it's true.  Take the Jaeger Lecoultre Geophysic True Second.  Not too popular a watch from what I can tell anyway, but at the same time I started to see them well available at multiple grey sellers.  In fact one of them had two of them for sale at the same time.  More recently I'm seeing the Geophysic Universal Time pop up at multiple places and at a hefty discount of about 40% as well.  In both cases I'm assuming it's more than just multiple cases of buyer's remorse all of sudden.  I know from what's been said here that a lot of JLCs drop in value, but considering that I'm seeing multiple pieces for sale at the same time and I feel as though they must be getting moved to the grey market.  

Despite my two watch purchases I would actually welcome a correction from a "collector" standpoint.  By that I mean that thus far I've only bought the watches with the intention of forever wearing them and with no plans to sell them any time soon.  The same would apply to other watches that I'm interested in and so I would welcome a correction as I could then afford maybe a watch or two that I normally could not or get more of the pieces that I fancy.  The question for me though is assuming we're in a correction period here or soon to be in one, how far do we think we'll see prices drop?  

As regards Panerai, I can understand the frustration if one has been collecting them for a while.  I was looking at one of the references that I'm interested and a seller had an Out of Range piece for sale.  I'd never heard of that before.  I would actually welcome it with a few watches from other manufacturers as I have noted I'm a big fan of tribute watches and vintage inspired pieces, some of whom I missed out on in recent years as I simply wasn't into the luxury end when they were released and they've subsequently sold out.  If Panerais go through a big correction as Archie suggests, there are a couple that interest me.  I love the gold hands contrasting with the steel case on a few of the references, though I have to say with the dials being so similar in a fair amount of cases that one might just do the trick.  I would definitely be in for at least one though as I've been considering one anyway.  
If there is drop in price will it be seen only at grey Dealers or at AD as well?
post #2143 of 3962
Thread Starter 
Ahem.

post #2144 of 3962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post
 

Yes its Archie.  

 

I'm honestly quite amazed that Archie seems to be known around the globe. 

 

Coincidentally, Archie (not his real name, obviously) and I went to the same school, although he was a couple of years ahead of me. He was somewhat eccentric back then, too. 

 

I had no idea that he had created an internet persona until I was reading a local news article about a lady who bought a LV bag from a duty free store and who considered that it was fake and so she took it to Archie for his opinion as he is - according to himself, at least - a Louis Vuitton expert. He pronounced it fake, apparently. I then did a Google search on him to see what he's been up to and discovered the internet world of "Archie Luxury". Truly bizarre.

post #2145 of 3962
Big Congrats, Mimo. Looks great!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post

Ahem.

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Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre, Baume & Mercier and more)