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Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre, Baume & Mercier and more)
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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre, Baume & Mercier and more) - Page 119

post #1771 of 3945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joenobody0 View Post

I know it sounds snobbish, but I'll always stick to real watch brands - not guys who decide their luxury lifestyle brand could use a watch offering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by firenze_rob View Post

Is this in context to the post about Montblanc?

Problem is that whether a watch brand or a lifestyle brand, it's still just a brand.

Very few high-end watchmaking companies have any continuous, legitimate connection to the storied histories that they market. Really, there's just a handful: Patek, Vacheron, Audemars, IWC, Jaeger-LeCoultre, Rolex, Omega . . . and maybe one or two others. Breguet and Lange are both resuscitated brands that have only the most tenuous connections to their historical forebears.

So, while I sympathize with wanting a "real" watch company's logo on my watches, I'm not sure there is much difference between Breguet, which had to acquire Lemania to become a manufacture, and Montblanc, which acquired Minerva to do the same.

That's why I stick to a small circle of makers, which happen to be the same ones that see better resale value and enjoy better status amongst seasoned collectors. It's not an accident so many of the most sophisticated watch guys wind up focusing on Patek and Rolex.
post #1772 of 3945
Speaking of Lange, in my search for my next acquisition, I tried on a Lange 1 versus a Patek 5296 yesterday. Love the Lange 1 in concept and for its design, but it did not wear well at all on me. Very hockey puck.
post #1773 of 3945
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebayhtl View Post

Thought I'd share a couple of beauties from Montblanc - from their Nicolas Rieussec collection and both limited edition (one is limited to 100 pieces and the other to 565 pieces). Don't know a lot about them - I know Montblanc has put a lot of money into watches and backed by Richemont, but still a new-ish brand in the watch world regardless. Happy to hear any thoughts.

Thinking of using one of these as a watch to complement suits at work, and then selling the IWC Da Vinci chrono ceramic...
 

 

What's the diameter on those?  They look big.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joenobody0 View Post

Why would you choose to by from a watch blog rather than a real vintage dealer?

 

Because they provide a lot more detail than pretty much any other dealer out there including pointing out the "flaws" of the watch which in my experience few if any do.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyc wid it View Post


1. Prices posted
2. Ease of transaction

 

Two more reasons.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joenobody0 View Post


For vintage, I'd be considering how much the seller knows. Their screw up on the speedmaster made them look like incompetent opportunists to me.

 

Their "screw up" on the Speedmaster was very minor and they handled it all very well.  I would have put it on the Hodinkee main page as opposed to the shop blog, but that's about it.  They replied on Reddit and even on social media.  Clymer even replied on a personal social media account and was even insulted as to his personal appearance on social media.  They took all the right steps, even offering to refund the buyer which he/she never took them up on.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottcw View Post


I don't agree with the collective wisdom of Reddit.

 

I'd say the "collective widsom" of Reddit was largely proven wrong if I recall correctly.  Of course no mention of that on Reddit (last time I checked).  

post #1774 of 3945
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Speaking of Lange, in my search for my next acquisition, I tried on a Lange 1 versus a Patek 5296 yesterday. Love the Lange 1 in concept and for its design, but it did not wear well at all on me. Very hockey puck.

 

What size was it?  I'm sure you know this, but if you go back a few years they did make them smaller.  I came across a very nice looking 38.5mm Lange 1 the other day.

post #1775 of 3945
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAUGRANA View Post

What size was it?  I'm sure you know this, but if you go back a few years they did make them smaller.  I came across a very nice looking 38.5mm Lange 1 the other day.

It was the standard Lange 1, not the Grand Lange 1.
post #1776 of 3945
^I tend to agree that, when splitting hairs, the Lange 1 case is a bit too bulky vs the elegance of the watch. It's almost like Lange has 1 case that they just adjust to size for everything across their lines; saxonia to datagraph.
post #1777 of 3945
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerpac View Post

^I tend to agree that, when splitting hairs, the Lange 1 case is a bit too bulky vs the elegance of the watch. It's almost like Lange has 1 case that they just adjust to size for everything across their lines; saxonia to datagraph.

Exactly. The style and design suggest an elegant, dressy watch. But the bulk of the case is just a tad too much--particularly when compared to its peers.

Don't get me wrong, if I were absolutely in love with the watch on all other counts, this wouldn't be an issue.
post #1778 of 3945
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebayhtl View Post

Thought I'd share a couple of beauties from Montblanc - from their Nicolas Rieussec collection and both limited edition (one is limited to 100 pieces and the other to 565 pieces). 

Not very interested in their products.  To me they will always be a pen maker, regardless of what company they acquired to make their movements.  Also, these days the term limited edition is over used and is often a gimmick to make people believe something is truly special and rare.  Not to mention most watch companies release several limited editions every year.  Skip these and move on to something else. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Exactly. The style and design suggest an elegant, dressy watch. But the bulk of the case is just a tad too much--particularly when compared to its peers.

Don't get me wrong, if I were absolutely in love with the watch on all other counts, this wouldn't be an issue.

Obviously, if you aren't in love with it then nothing else matters.  However, I think in terms of peers its tough to compare it to anything.  I don't really think their is a Patek, VC, or AP that has the functions or design of an L1.

 

It never intends to be an ultra thin watch.  It has a few subdials, and a roughly 3 day power reserve so it wasn't going to be a thin watch.  I don't own one (a relative does), but its a piece that I like and find the case thickness lends itself to being worn more often (as its not dainty or fragile), and it can also look good with some casual wear.  But to each his own.  

post #1779 of 3945
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post


Very few high-end watchmaking companies have any continuous, legitimate connection to the storied histories that they market. ...It's not an accident so many of the most sophisticated watch guys wind up focusing on Patek and Rolex.

 

Fair point.  Even those with a continuous line of production for however long have often changed hands many times and are led now by one of the brand behemoths that control most of the industry.  I am more impressed by history shown elegantly through the design than "Depuis 17xx..."

 

And that is my principal issue with Montblanc: as much as it grates to see their unfamiliar labels, I've no problem with them, or Louis Vuitton or Hermes doing what they're doing.  They have decided to make a high quality product, invested in serious knowledge and capacity and that's fine.  It's just business.  But with Montblanc in particular - particular because they are aiming for a high volume market segment - it's so disappointing that they cannot come up with a coherent design language.  Their pens are recognisable from a mile away.  But their watches are a bizarre medley of inflated parts bin jumbles that are often weirdly reminiscent of cheaper brands.  They're just not designing anything with a personality, and it seems like an opportunity lost when they have made such a big move.

 

As for Patek and Rolex, I don't quite put them in the same space now.  Rolex's famously glacial pace of design evolution is a real strength.  They are what they have always been, and I hope always will be.  Patek make some extraordinary understated beauties, but I can't help thinking they've drifted a bit in design: that weirdly droopy chronograph, and (let Professor Belligero explain) the generic fonts.  There's plenty of reason to want their older models even at the premium prices, but I wonder if the current models sustain their value, it might be as much to do with the massive recent advertising investment as consistent standards.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

It was the standard Lange 1, not the Grand Lange 1.

 

Each to his own, but I think Lange has set the standard for what a re-born brand can be.  Sure, a lot of their watches are thicker than the average dress watch, but it's a clear part of their design philosophy.  They have managed to hit a sweet spot for me, dipping back into their traditions of pocket watches, deck watches and even showpiece clocks, and then bringing out a modern range that is immediately both distinctive and enduring.  If something has an individual style then by definition it won't please everyone, but I have every admiration for Lange because they've managed to create a product that is both consistent in design and of unquestionable quality.

post #1780 of 3945
I take your point mimo about design language and a coherent brand look. It is a double edged sword however - dull glacial design evolution seems to work well commercially, witness Porsche, Audi, Rolex, Montblanc (pens), the two button single-breasted suit, the cap toe shoe etc. There is though a place for design experimentation, but as in fashion so with watches the experiments are usually messes.

I think with Patek - for most of their range with complications people value the craftsmanship rather than the design.
post #1781 of 3945
Thread Starter 

Yes, I think we're saying the same thing on the glacial design evolution: it works - provided the design is coherent in the first place.  A Submariner or a 911 looks good because it's always looked good.  And even those conservative designers come out with the occasional innovation, be it an annual calendar or a Panamera (which is an ugly pic imho, but I digress).  Where I think MB are so far off is in trying so many completely different styles at once as their starting point.

 

As for Patek, for a hundred grand I'd want both, and done damn well!

post #1782 of 3945
I can think of plenty of other things I'd prefer to spend a hundred grand on but I take your point.
post #1783 of 3945
My new grail watch:

post #1784 of 3945
Quote:
Originally Posted by culverwood View Post

I take your point mimo about design language and a coherent brand look. It is a double edged sword however - dull glacial design evolution seems to work well commercially, witness Porsche, Audi, Rolex, Montblanc (pens), the two button single-breasted suit, the cap toe shoe etc. There is though a place for design experimentation, but as in fashion so with watches the experiments are usually messes.

I think with Patek - for most of their range with complications people value the craftsmanship rather than the design.
Good design principles are pretty well-established, and not nearly as subjective as most people think.

I like to see fresh designs that show use of well-refined concepts in new ways, and straying from convention is great as long as you know what you're doing. Unfortunately, design standards have declined quite a bit since personal computers eliminated the entry barrier. There's just a lot of incompetent, badly-drafted product (in all consumer industries) that won't stand the test of time, is just done to look different without any underlying purpose or reason, and doesn't constitute meaningful innovation.

I believe the technical term for this stuff is "fashion bullshit". smile.gif
post #1785 of 3945
The new and old Lange 1s are the same size. I prefer the look of the old Lange 1's movement, but that's just me.

Think the Lange 1 is a hockey puck? There is another German look alike that is more hockey puck than you can shake a stick at! tounge.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAUGRANA View Post

Their "screw up" on the Speedmaster was very minor and they handled it all very well.  I would have put it on the Hodinkee main page as opposed to the shop blog, but that's about it.  They replied on Reddit and even on social media.  Clymer even replied on a personal social media account and was even insulted as to his personal appearance on social media.  They took all the right steps, even offering to refund the buyer which he/she never took them up on.  

Erm, I think selling a frankenwatch as an all legit vintage speedmaster is a pretty massive screw up.

The case didn't match the movement - that is second only to a fake/mismatched dial on the vintage watch screw up scale.
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Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre, Baume & Mercier and more)