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Australian Members - Part II - if you read the first post, you'll get what this is all about. - Page 73

post #1081 of 3543
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ernesto View Post



What's it like being in the subset?

Wouldn't know - the whole point is I'm too much of an arriviste peasant to ever be comfortable with the signal.

post #1082 of 3543
Here's PoP in his. With detail. (Click to show)
post #1083 of 3543
Good news for foxy - you can get matching trouser and make a suit. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
post #1084 of 3543

^ I bet they'd be popular at Mardi Gras, too, especially without the jeans.

post #1085 of 3543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Journeyman View Post
 

^ I bet they'd be popular at Mardi Gras, too, especially without the jeans.

Not a fancy image to carry in my head going into lunch hour. 

post #1086 of 3543
Quote:
Originally Posted by crdb View Post

I didn't have the courage to say it first, but I agree. 

Very personal opinion, YMMV etc.: having grown up in a mix of London and the Alps, to me a Barbour is strictly a country/casual piece; mostly country, and for a specific subset of society that likes to ride horses and shoot pheasants on their estate (or of a certain generation). Even more so than tweed.

The waxed cloth was a groundbreaking solution to wetness and cold... at the time. Today, it's heavy, and less performant than more modern materials at keeping you warm and dry at a much heavier weight penalty, and without actually looking interesting or pleasant. The only times I've willingly worn anything resembling a Barbour is when going shooting, as a shooting jacket, and then only because of the large pockets in which to put the shells. 

I think one should either celebrate the opportunity to wear warm clothes with a well cut double breasted overcoat, maybe in navy, grey herringbone, or camel - and yes, these are expensive to do well, sometimes a multiple of your suit - or give up on "looking good whilst outside" and go practical with a ski jacket or shell jacket made of something modern, ultralight and that can withstand 20 minutes of rain and wind without drenching what's underneath. Both of these with breathe better, the first will look better and the second will say "I admit it's bloody cold today and I give up on trying to look good and protecting my suit". I'm personally an overcoat kind of guy, I love the opportunity to wear DB without attracting attention (as you would with a DB suit just about anywhere) and there is a particular satisfaction to the warmth of the double layer of clothing in front of you when the wind hits you hard. I ski jacket it when it's snowing and many degrees below zero (not a problem in Australia) at which point absolute warmth is the deciding factor. 

Just glorious:


All well and good, but I think "men's style" evolves in response to events outside its control, and well, in this case it has. The thing about the prescriptive view of clothing is that, well, it is prescriptive and so by definition cannot evolve. I think you subscribe to that view - which is all well and good.

Heavy DB coats in heavy woollen fabrics in most cities (even in Europe) look smashing I agree, but are heading for extinction nonetheless - with good reason too.The world has evolved, you don't have coat checks to relieve you of 3kg of clothing anymore at the entrances of buildings, and well really the only time you're outdoors facing the elements is during that short period from car/public transport to building doorway. Little things like central air conditioning make a huge difference too.

Barbours and their cousins are sort of the perfect answer to the modern city dweller's need for something that is waterproof, that is not really warm ++ (because that's not needed any more), and yet is familiar enough/has enough of a "history" to be comforting in an sort of odd way. If you're feeling less charitable you might say that people are signalling that they belong to social strata with it as well. I don't think the old distinctions between city/country wear really apply anymore - because, well, really? We don't live in a "brown is for farmer" era anymore.
post #1087 of 3543

Well, that certainly generated some discussion and a good range of responses to invetigate.

 

Personally, looking at the photos posted, I tend to side with @lachyzee in that I'm not a great fan of the Barbour and M65 type coats with the more formal office look. They do work well as casual wear though. Some of the puffer options look neat, as does the Mac and also the peacoat which I'm a big fan of, but contemplating whether it'll actually get cold enough to wear.

 

Thanks to everyone for the responses - I found this on MJB last night which prompted the question about how warm it would wear. Having seen the other options people have posted, I'd prefer the Mac of Peacoat over this.

 

Cheers

post #1088 of 3543
Quote:
Originally Posted by smeggett View Post

Well, that certainly generated some discussion and a good range of responses to invetigate.

Personally, looking at the photos posted, I tend to side with @lachyzee
in that I'm not a great fan of the Barbour and M65 type coats with the more formal office look. They do work well as casual wear though. Some of the puffer options look neat, as does the Mac and also the peacoat which I'm a big fan of, but contemplating whether it'll actually get cold enough to wear.

Thanks to everyone for the responses - I found this on MJB last night which prompted the question about how warm it would wear. Having seen the other options people have posted, I'd prefer the Mac of Peacoat over this.

Cheers

In the depths of a Canberra winter I've seen a lot of Pea Coats or Overcoats around oddly hardly a Trench coat to be seen.

That is provided we have a winter this year.
post #1089 of 3543
Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos View Post

All well and good, but I think "men's style" evolves in response to events outside its control, and well, in this case it has. The thing about the prescriptive view of clothing is that, well, it is prescriptive and so by definition cannot evolve. I think you subscribe to that view - which is all well and good.

Heavy DB coats in heavy woollen fabrics in most cities (even in Europe) look smashing I agree, but are heading for extinction nonetheless - with good reason too.The world has evolved, you don't have coat checks to relieve you of 3kg of clothing anymore at the entrances of buildings, and well really the only time you're outdoors facing the elements is during that short period from car/public transport to building doorway. Little things like central air conditioning make a huge difference too.

Barbours and their cousins are sort of the perfect answer to the modern city dweller's need for something that is waterproof, that is not really warm ++ (because that's not needed any more), and yet is familiar enough/has enough of a "history" to be comforting in an sort of odd way. If you're feeling less charitable you might say that people are signalling that they belong to social strata with it as well. I don't think the old distinctions between city/country wear really apply anymore - because, well, really? We don't live in a "brown is for farmer" era anymore.

You should try taking the subway in NY, Paris, Tokyo or Moscow during winter, then come back and tell us warm is not needed anymore.
post #1090 of 3543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petepan View Post

You should try taking the subway in NY, Paris, Tokyo or Moscow during winter, then come back and tell us warm is not needed anymore.

Oh yah, that's why everyone on the subway in NY, Paris, Tokyo or Moscow during winter wears DB overcoats... sarcasm.gif

I never said warm is not needed anymore - it's just needed less. A lot less. Which is why it's difficult noawadays to find the formerly common heavy winter coats anywhere. Most people don't wear 28-32oz woollen coats on top of 16-22oz suiting anymore. It's more like quilted Barbours on top of 10-12oz suiting now. That is the point I'm trying to make.
post #1091 of 3543
I thought I would give non-RMWs one more try and bought a pair of Herring Knightbridges.

The shoe is actually quite comfortable but the cap toe pinches the knuckle of my big toe. Is it possible to stretch the cap toe?
post #1092 of 3543
I completely agree that heavy woollen overcoats/greatcoats are impractical these days, in Aus especially. I have a really nice greatcoat that only ever gets worn when I go overseas unfortunately.

They've gone out of fashion for the reasons mentioned, as with heavy suiting.

But my own personal opinion is that countrified outerwear doesn't work so well with a suit. I say the same about RMWs. Opinions vary on these issues clearly!

I also, personally, find double breasted coats a little fiddly due to all the buttoning and unbuttoning, and the extra warmth from the double front isn't really necessary in Melbourne.

All of the outerwear that I have to wear over a suit is pretty conservative to be honest, but I think it covers all bases:

Suitsupply Navy Cashmere overcoat: http://eu.suitsupply.com/en/coats/navy-overcoat/J292.html?cgid=Coats



And the grey version too:



A Mackintosh Dunkeld with interior lining for really wet and cold days:



And also a lighter beige Mac made by Luxire for wet days that aren't so cold which sorta looks like this:

post #1093 of 3543
Here's a picture I saw over at the FNB forums Ivy section. From memory, it's a doctor making house calls on Long Island or somewhere in the north east. Maybe fxh can help out.

Note the M 65 over a suit or, at least, doctor's garb. Presumably the M 65 was the man's very own and not some contrivance. Interesting nevertheless ...

post #1094 of 3543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oli2012 View Post

I thought I would give non-RMWs one more try and bought a pair of Herring Knightbridges.

The shoe is actually quite comfortable but the cap toe pinches the knuckle of my big toe. Is it possible to stretch the cap toe?

Do you mean that the seam is pressing down on the knuckle? Or is it the creasing? My guess is that you might need to break it in a bit more, using thicker socks or some plaster in the pinching area. If that is not working, then it is a fit issue, and you need a captoe with a different seam position or a plaintoe.
post #1095 of 3543

It's not about warm. When you need warm, nothing beats specialized equipment (be it Canada Goose or something with synthetics from a ski brand for 1/5th the price). The Barbour is, there, an inferior technical solution to the problem. Nobody runs races in leather shoes.

 

It's about looking good. A well cut overcoat is one of the most glorious expressions of classic menswear there exists. It is beautiful for the same reason suits are beautiful. It is designed to go over a suit and enhance your shape, unlike the Barbour, even belted. It's also has the same advantage as a suit: it breathes, which anything waterproof usually won't (certainly not waxed cotton). The overcoat is not the superior technical solution even if it's technically acceptable, but I like it because I find it looks the best of all available options.

 

The reason we don't see as many overcoats is that they are bloody expensive. You can get a ski jacket (or North Face equivalent) in the UK for < $100. A decent, well cut overcoat is going to set you back 10x that at least. A tailored piece many times that again. Yes, you can buy on eBay and get it adjusted, but most people won't think of it or know how to. So the casual wearer defaults to something else. From what I have seen, they are even more expensive in Australia, probably from a combination of lack of demand (since winter is mild) and import fees and markups.

 

Fashion and style is about the wearer's enjoyment. I personally love to see someone enjoying their clothes no matter what they are. I've made my point on what I would not wear a Barbour but ultimately, if a Barbour makes the wearer happy, whatever the reason, it is a good purchase.

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Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Australian Members - Part II - if you read the first post, you'll get what this is all about.