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post #31 of 53
I would have approached this differently.
before giving the list.
I would have mentioned that your previous shoemaker, did your work a specific way. You are happy with his work but he has retired. you should have mentioned him by name. B. Nelson may know this esteemed shoemaker.

then said, would it be ok if i sent you a list of the methods he used.

if they replied, then you could send the list.
post #32 of 53

Yeah, well, it's not a matter of what you're asking, it's more like the vibe. For instance, I think it's fine to specify Topy thickness in a normal conversation (like 'not to thick, less than a couple of millimeters, something like that' - btw, I don't think Topys can be much thicker anyway), but reading your email, one gets the impression that you'd actually get a ruler and start measuring the thickness of the rubber protector on the shoe once everything's done. That can put people off.

post #33 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirtmaven View Post

I would have approached this differently.
before giving the list.
I would have mentioned that your previous shoemaker, did your work a specific way. You are happy with his work but he has retired. you should have mentioned him by name. B. Nelson may know this esteemed shoemaker.

then said, would it be ok if i sent you a list of the methods he used.

if they replied, then you could send the list.

 

Thanks for these useful tips!  

 

That makes sense to me:  As I said, with everybody's help I realize that the way I put this was wrong. But, on the other hand, I had no clue on how I should have asked this.  And, in the end, I end up missing an opportunity to work with a cobbler who I think could have very well done the work I am looking for and who I think would have totally satisfied me.  

post #34 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Topaze View Post
 

Yeah, well, it's not a matter of what you're asking, it's more like the vibe. For instance, I think it's fine to specify Topy thickness in a normal conversation (like 'not to thick, less than a couple of millimeters, something like that' - btw, I don't think Topys can be much thicker anyway), but reading your email, one gets the impression that you'd actually get a ruler and start measuring the thickness of the rubber protector on the shoe once everything's done. That can put people off.

Yes, I understand that it is not my requests per se or the fact that I was precise that were wrong but rather the way I approached and formulated this..  I realize that this was the wrong vibe, and, this is why I have sought reactions and advice from the forum.  Shirtmaven's advice was very helpful.

 

I would not have taken a ruler to measure the topy, but, I was just trying to be as precise as I could.  If I recall correctly, there are some topys that are thicker than 2mm, and, I do not like those.  So, I wanted to make sure I would not get them.

 

And, I think it would have been different if i could have visited B. Nelson's shop and chatted with him.  For example, he could have showed me what kind of topys he has, and i could have chosen one.  I guess doing this over email adds a level of difficulty, and, I have not done a good job at explaining what I am looking for.  

 

This was my first time trying to do this over the internet and email, and, it is a miss.  But, I got something out of this experience, and, I'll definitely will go with Shitmaven's advice next time as I believe this is good way to approach this sort of things. 


Edited by cypi2 - 2/9/16 at 8:35am
post #35 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by cypi2 View Post
 

 

I can understand that.  But, on the other hand, I participate and read forums like SF because I appreciate the work of great artisans and these forums turn out to be great sources of good addresses.  And in fact, it is to avoid disappointments and problems that I source some artisans in forums like SF, and, so far, it has worked quite well for me.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cypi2 View Post
 

Perhaps, I should have have turned that email into a question like:  I am looking to have some plastic soles and toe taps installed on my shoes.  Can you let me know how you install them?  I don't know...

 

You sound quite reasonable here - but B. Nelson may not have known that.   If he's had poor experiences with over-demanding customers, then he may just choose to err on the side of caution.   I do the same with customers that come across as problematic - especially when it comes to relatively small amounts.     It isnt worth the hassle of dealing with negative feedback online.   OTOH, when it comes to customers we know, demanding isnt a problem.

 

A simpler email to start with, or perhaps one containing just your expected end-results ("i want the rubber sole to be inline with the leather, not sticking out") may have been a better way to start.

 

I can understand your POV - you didnt really do anything wrong.   I've also been in your shoes with a vendor over a particular high-end pen i wanted.   It is more an indictment of the fact that a lot of people have an extreme sense of entitlement when it comes to their lofty position as "Customer" (which they seem to conflate with "Supreme Deity"), and are willing to get quite unreasonably vociferous online if they dont get what they expect.

post #36 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by cypi2 View Post
Perhaps, I should have have turned that email into a question like:  I am looking to have some plastic soles and toe taps installed on my shoes.  Can you let me know how you install them?

 

Totally.

post #37 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilchasRuin View Post
 

 

 

You sound quite reasonable here - but B. Nelson may not have known that.   If he's had poor experiences with over-demanding customers, then he may just choose to err on the side of caution.   I do the same with customers that come across as problematic - especially when it comes to relatively small amounts.     It isnt worth the hassle of dealing with negative feedback online.   OTOH, when it comes to customers we know, demanding isnt a problem.

 

A simpler email to start with, or perhaps one containing just your expected end-results ("i want the rubber sole to be inline with the leather, not sticking out") may have been a better way to start.

 

I can understand your POV - you didnt really do anything wrong.   I've also been in your shoes with a vendor over a particular high-end pen i wanted.   It is more an indictment of the fact that a lot of people have an extreme sense of entitlement when it comes to their lofty position as "Customer" (which they seem to conflate with "Supreme Deity"), and are willing to get quite unreasonably vociferous online if they dont get what they expect.

 

I have great respect for artisans, and, I am genuinely interested in their work.  Being precise in my requests is, I think, one way to avoid disappointments and problems on both sides, the customer’s and the artisan’s.  I also like to build lasting relationships with artisans.

 

Thanks to all your reactions, I am seeing where B. Nelson is coming from, and, I totally realize and accept the fact that I formulated this the wrong way. 

 

I think that my completer lack of experience doing this over email and the internet threw me off.  I am truly sorry for this as, in view of the feedback B. Nelson is getting on SF, I am convinced that he is a great cobbler and I would have liked to work with him.

post #38 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick R View Post
 

 

Totally.

Yes, i get it now.  Thanks to you all, I see what i did wrong.  

post #39 of 53
I've had Nick V. (B. Nelson/VIP) take care of my stuff and he's always been a stand-up guy. Will he make soles as pretty as G&G? No, you'd want to send them to the factory to do that work. However, for sole guards, heel replacements, and no-fuss resoles (JR with exposed stitches), I trust him with my stuff.

Could Nick (assuming he was the one who responded) have responded in more detail? Yes. Could the OP have relayed your request differently? Yes. In this instance, I believe a phone conversation would have been much better (and more interactive).

I hope the OP finds a cobbler who will do the work to his standards.
post #40 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by cypi2 View Post
 

Yes, i get it now.  Thanks to you all, I see what i did wrong.  

 

Agree with your conclusions about the email signaling a problem customer, but I don't get why you would trust a cobbler located on the opposite coast with your shoes if you are fastidious about those details.

 

Just go to your local cobbler. Specify what you want and have him take a shot at doing the same on a cheaper pair of your shoes before you give him your EG's to work on. All this BS of sending shoes across the country to an NY cobbler is ridiculous.

post #41 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuitedDx View Post

I've had Nick V. (B. Nelson/VIP) take care of my stuff and he's always been a stand-up guy. Will he make soles as pretty as G&G? No, you'd want to send them to the factory to do that work. However, for sole guards, heel replacements, and no-fuss resoles (JR with exposed stitches), I trust him with my stuff.

Could Nick (assuming he was the one who responded) have responded in more detail? Yes. Could the OP have relayed your request differently? Yes. In this instance, I believe a phone conversation would have been much better (and more interactive).

I hope the OP finds a cobbler who will do the work to his standards.

 

Your trust in B. Nelson echoes what I have read on SF.

 

Yes, I definitely agree I should have done this over the phone rather than through email. I think email turned out to be a terrible medium in this case, and, coupled with my inexperience doing this over email/the internet it led to this unfortunate outcome.

 

.

post #42 of 53
Yelp reviews have been so so

Great or poor

Have they went down hill over time ?
post #43 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyinsanfran View Post
 

 

Agree with your conclusions about the email signaling a problem customer, but I don't get why you would trust a cobbler located on the opposite coast with your shoes if you are fastidious about those details.

 

Just go to your local cobbler. Specify what you want and have him take a shot at doing the same on a cheaper pair of your shoes before you give him your EG's to work on. All this BS of sending shoes across the country to an NY cobbler is ridiculous.

You have a point.  One cobbler in the area where I live answered my inquiry and proposed I stop by to show me his work.  I just received a pair of Carmina, and, I intend to do just what you suggest:  Go see and talk to that cobbler and eventually give me him a shot at this pair of Carmina.

 

I wanted to try B. Nelson because of the raving reviews I've read about him on SF, and, I found the fact that he also offered this mailing service convenient.

post #44 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparrow View Post

Yelp reviews have been so so

Great or poor

Have they went down hill over time ?

Hmm... I have had surprises with Yelp reviews although I still look at them.  But, my experience has been that, in general, reviews on forums such as SF are better (more detailed, less general) than those found on Yelp.

post #45 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by cypi2 View Post
 

I think that my completer lack of experience doing this over email and the internet threw me off.  I am truly sorry for this as, in view of the feedback B. Nelson is getting on SF, I am convinced that he is a great cobbler and I would have liked to work with him.

 

Maybe  worth sending an email to him mentioning that you didnt realize how your email could have been misunderstood, that you didnt mean to come across the way he interpreted it (ie, clarify your position), and say you respect his decision, and toss in a "seems to be my loss, everything on SF has me convinced you are a great cobbler and i would have liked to work with you".    Just leave it at that.

 

Maybe he'll meet you half-way?   Nothing to lose.

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