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Paris under attack again - Page 11

post #151 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post


10k is definitely a lot. I think the problem has come into more clear focus that sometime ago Da3sh started telling people you don't need to come. Stay at home and we will find a use for you. If I had to put a pin it it I would guess this was after they got their shit fucked up in Kobani and then Tal Abyad. They were willing to withdraw from Tal Abyad because the flow of foreign fighters slowed to a trickle after Kobani. 

Some of the guys implicated did go to Syria to get training.
post #152 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

incidentally, Saudi Arabia has a de-radicalization program that claims something to the order of 80-85% success rate. The raw numbers may indicate a pretty small operation for all I know, but on the surface they are at least committing to saving face and their ossifying dynastic rule.

 

I don't know if that program can work outside of Saudi Arabia though. All they have to do is lower these guys to Saudi Arabia's level of conservatism. I don't know if you can take someone ready to join ISIS and make them accept European society. 

post #153 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

why not ? guantanamo seems to be working well

incidentally, Saudi Arabia has a de-radicalization program that claims something to the order of 80-85% success rate. The raw numbers may indicate a pretty small operation for all I know, but on the surface they are at least committing to saving face and their ossifying dynastic rule.

They enter salafists and they exit wahhabists or the other way around?
post #154 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post


They enter salafists and they exit wahhabists or the other way around?


Salafi and Wahhabi are the same thing. Wahhabi is a derogatory term. 

post #155 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post


Salafi and Wahhabi are the same thing. Wahhabi is a derogatory term. 

That was the joke....rimshot.gif
post #156 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

Salafi and Wahhabi are the same thing. Wahhabi is a derogatory term. 

Not exactly, you should know better !

Wahhabi = Follower of the teachings of abd al-Wahhab, who in the 18th Century decided to he was the righteous one charged with halting decay in Muslim society by reviving a puritanical interpretation based on his understanding of the earliest generations of Muslims.

Salafis, on the other hand, can be Wahhabi, or they can follow the teachings of others. Many actually do not follow abd al-Wahhab, and revert to ibn Taymiyyah or his studnet ibn Qayyim, both of which are referenced heavily by abd al-Wahhab but of course through his lens. So you can have non-violent Salafis for example in N. Africa, other Gulf states that didn't rely on abd al-Wahhab's scholarship to justify their take over (as was the case with the al-Saud family trying to consolidate total power), etc.

It is not a stretch to claim that ibn Taymiyyah was actually one of the strongest proponents of secularism as in the separation of mosque and state, and the context for much of his writings is completely ignored.

In fact, every generation (say 50 years or so) the meaning of Salafism changes, and many of the current and strict "tests" for who is a salafi would not even be passable by the very people they claim to be emulating as most of the issues are identical to philosophical questions brought up but thinkers and reformists of the Christian faith (for example, the attributes of God -- are they literal or not).

Anyway this is a huge derailment that won't help the current issue being discussed here so we can move it elsewhere, but you were being a naughty generalist so I had to clarify.

And so Fuuma's facetious joke actually does make sense in some way because it is consistent with this differentiation.
post #157 of 322
AFAIk wahhabists=Saudi salafism, while salafism has other varieties (notably Egyptian) but I'm no specialist. The joke was about saying its the same thing.


I know Euro media likes to say salafists are often implicated in terrorist attacks but that is almost never the case as, according to more serious studies, Euro salafists are almost always of the apolitical, my beard is really according to standards and I pray really, really well type, hence harmless.

The dudes you get in Europe are recently radicalized, disenfranchised youth. Hell even ISIS soldiers tend to join for more practical concerns (they're in the area, they need a job, they think shias are out to get them, they want pride and no USA influence, they grew up under USA attacks and occupation so they're mad etc.).
post #158 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

AFAIk wahhabists=Saudi salafism, while salafism has other varieties (notably Egyptian) but I'm no specialist. The joke was about saying its the same thing.


I know Euro media likes to say salafists are often implicated in terrorist attacks but that is almost never the case as, according to more serious studies, Euro salafists are almost always of the apolitical, my beard is really according to standards and I pray really, really well type, hence harmless.

The dudes you get in Europe are recently radicalized, disenfranchised youth. Hell even ISIS soldiers tend to join for more practical concerns (they're in the area, they need a job, they think shias are out to get them, they want pride and no USA influence, they grew up under USA attacks and occupation so they're mad etc.).

with regards to those in the area seeking employment ... well, apparently they spout the same rhetoric as Western conservatives, i.e. the immigrants are taking our benefits and jobs!!!
Quote:
Abu Ibrahim al-Raqqawi, a pseudonym for a young anti-IS activist from Raqqa, told Al-Monitor the situation was dire. He said, “People in Raqqa are outraged. There are a lot of immigrants who came and joined IS: Americans, British, Germans, Europeans in general and from around the world. They are given special treatment, pampered by the organization.”

He added, “They are given the best homes and cars while locals pay taxes. They took the abandoned houses — some left behind by Christians, others by Sunnis — while those in the city who own more than a house are forced to give all other houses to the immigrants.”


src

that's basically Find Finn with a beard
post #159 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

Right now changing the constitution means:


-Removing citizenships from terrorists

We've had that for years and years and it's about as trying to kill a bear with a dart arrow.

They have to sign a document saying they are going freely or "their country" won't accept them back (Iraq, Somalia, Syria etc.), which they can just refuse. They can also just claim that their life will be in danger if they return.

People on tolerated stay aren't allowed to work or own business and have to show up at a place once a week and "sign in", which essentially means they are here on the tax payers expense and/or continue their crimes.
post #160 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post


that's basically Find Finn with a beard

So me, as I have a beard. wink.gif
post #161 of 322

My FB feed is filled with negative reactions to various governors saying they aren't going to accept refuges, etc.  I thought it was pretty well established that the bombers were French/European citizens for the most part.

post #162 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

My FB feed is filled with negative reactions to various governors saying they aren't going to accept refuges, etc.  I thought it was pretty well established that the bombers were French/European citizens for the most part.

I'm fairly certain most, if not all, of our local populace that left to fight with ISIS were also born domestically. They all seem to follow the standard M.O., petty criminals of low intelligence with gang ties as youths that become radicalized at some point.
post #163 of 322
I agree with 2 liberals.

First, Chris Matthews, who says no Americans in combat until the able-bodied migrant Syrians are conscripted to fight for their own country.

Second, Obama. He doesn't want to send in troops. Me neither. I don't want any U.S. intervention unless the military is allowed to win. No sissy war. Collateral damage, lots of stuff blowing up, indiscriminant killing, mayhem, nukes, complete obliteration. A yard sprinkler of blood. If the press shows pictures of dead future jihadis, well, shoot them too - by accident of course. Just a big bloody messy unquestionable victory. Inciting future jihadis, you say? No, cause its all gonna be dead. So yeah, I agree with Obama.
post #164 of 322
Quote:
"We are not in a war of civilisations, because they [the terrorists] don't have any," Hollande said.


Oh goodness, this is going to get expensive.
post #165 of 322
I think the various ethnic differences would stop the first point from ever taking off.

The second idea sounds like it comes from Putin and, sadly, he seems to have Obama's balls again.
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