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Paris under attack again - Page 10

post #136 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

Hm, well there's this thing called NATO. Either way it's only a matter of time before they hit us. 


And when they're attacked by a nation we can consider intervening. The only reason we're a potential target is because we're involved right now.
post #137 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold falcon View Post


And when they're attacked by a nation we can consider intervening. The only reason we're a potential target is because we're involved right now.


Do you not understand that the Islamic State is a nation? It's cute that you think we can just turn our back on the world and everything will be fine. Supremely naive. 

post #138 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post


Do you not understand that the Islamic State is a nation? It's cute that you think we can just turn our back on the world and everything will be fine. Supremely naive. 

It's irrelevant.
post #139 of 322

Sovereignty over territory is extremely relevant. Nations can be invaded, insurgencies cannot. 

post #140 of 322
Even in the future, in Star Trek, where money has no value and maladies are cured with an air syringe, the Klingons occupy their space, the Romulans occupy their space, and the Federation occupies its space.

Even in Star Trek.
post #141 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

Sovereignty over territory is extremely relevant. Nations can be invaded, insurgencies cannot. 

Does the UN acknowledge them? Do they have assigned satellite orbits?
post #142 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post


Do you not understand that the Islamic State is a nation? It's cute that you think we can just turn our back on the world and everything will be fine. Supremely naive. 


Again, the proper nomenclature is Daesh. And a nation requires more than a few guns and some acres of desert. As far as I know no one has recognized them as a nation.

I don't think everything will be fine. It will be hell for the people in the Mid-East. They'll be beheaded, set on fire, raped, castrated, crucified, boiled alive, eaten while being raped, etc. But they'll be doing it over there where I don't give a shit. Not over here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Does the UN acknowledge them? Do they have assigned satellite orbits?

The UN recognizes them as an Extremist Terrorist Group, not as a nation. It has no representative at the UN. It has no embassies. No civil government.
post #143 of 322
You guys should go discuss your shit in the Middle-East thread.

Important discourse by Hollande in front of congress (this isn't like the US so rare occasion) right now asking to modify the constitution to fight terrorism.

Who attacked:

4 of the identified terrorists (dead) were born in France, same for one of the people being researched (his other two brothers are part of the terrorist squads who died). The Syrian passport found is a fake and hasn't been linked to a Syrian refugee, unlike what I have been reading here and on some sites, new information can, of course, surface.

The sponsor might be: Abdelhamid Abaaoud, he lives in Belgium and might have also been implicated in the Thalys attack.
post #144 of 322
Right now changing the constitution means:

Expanding emergency state to three months:

-Searches with only administrative autorizATION
-House arrest (probably for people on the "S" (state security) list

There are talks of:

-Removing citizenships from terrorists
-Studying the possiblity of having everyone on the "S" list (10,000 people) being electronically monitored or straight up arrested


Additional budgets for military and police forces


And of course the renewed USA-Russia-France commitment to destroying Daesh
post #145 of 322
Yikes, hard to get on board with that.
post #146 of 322

Sounds like Egypt. What do you do with 10k arrested? You can't jail them for life so then you're talking about putting tons and tons of money into de-radicalization programs. 

post #147 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Yikes, hard to get on board with that.

I threw this out there really fast but basically expanding the period of emergency state, adapting to new technologies and additional powers for the president during that time. The thing about citizenship is bullshit posturing but if they did it it could be for anyone with dual-citizenship so you'd get a french born algerians deported. The goal would obviously be to not have people return if they leave for Syria.

The "S" list thing was thrown out there by Sarkozy who, at this point, will say anything to look tough because his campaign isn't going as well as he hoped. Hollande probably wanted to look bi-partisan by taking him up upon it and saying the constitutional council would study the proposition (they'll certainly state this is batshit crazy and absolutely illegal). The new presidential powers/constitutional changes would be following a report from Balladur who wasn't on the socialist side. In other words the government is taking great care to get everyone on board that is considered part of the Republic (that excludes the FN).
post #148 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

Sounds like Egypt. What do you do with 10k arrested? You can't jail them for life so then you're talking about putting tons and tons of money into de-radicalization programs. 

That's assuming all 10k are radicalized. If they really are I'd say France has a bigger problem but I'm assuming this is over reaction on France's part.
post #149 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

Sounds like Egypt. What do you do with 10k arrested? You can't jail them for life so then you're talking about putting tons and tons of money into de-radicalization programs. 

why not ? guantanamo seems to be working well

incidentally, Saudi Arabia has a de-radicalization program that claims something to the order of 80-85% success rate. The raw numbers may indicate a pretty small operation for all I know, but on the surface they are at least committing to saving face and their ossifying dynastic rule.
post #150 of 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post


That's assuming all 10k are radicalized. If they really are I'd say France has a bigger problem but I'm assuming this is over reaction on France's part.


10k is definitely a lot. I think the problem has come into more clear focus that sometime ago Da3sh started telling people you don't need to come. Stay at home and we will find a use for you. If I had to put a pin it it I would guess this was after they got their shit fucked up in Kobani and then Tal Abyad. They were willing to withdraw from Tal Abyad because the flow of foreign fighters slowed to a trickle after Kobani. 

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