or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Neckties: A Discussion Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Neckties: A Discussion Thread - Page 64

post #946 of 1082

The tiecrafters was a chop job, in fact in light of this conversation I've been gazing at it sadly in the closet.

 

TweedyProf, not sure how you managed such a rapport or even linguistic fluency with EGC, seems you have some inside channel. For me it was always one-liner emails sent from his smartphone, very fast mind you, but left me at a loss as to how to go on beyond that point.

post #947 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxgenius View Post

^ you mention the expensive printed silks used by Hermes; what about their construction. I have heard from friends that own many of them that they periodically need to be relined as they tend to twist. Is that a defect in construction or the choice of lining they use?

Tax Genius,

Twisting is a defect in construction, if it twists when you first buy it. Part of making a luxury tie is during several different stages of construction holding the tie up and seeing if it twists, if it does you remake the tie.

If it twists later (after wearing it) there may be for another reason - maybe TweedyProf's deconstruction would be needed to find the root cause.

Hermes may use a light interlining for design reasons, they could like the look but it may not be the best for the tie.

Your question is difficult to be clear about without an example to find the main issue that is causing the problem.

Sort of like when doing tax research finding the issue can be a challenge and then subsequent research very straightforward at least it was always that way for me in the distant past - but I am not a tax genius - taxation is far harder for me then making ties...
post #948 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprout2 View Post
 

Reading DiplomaticTies' comment on 500 ties, I am inspired to throw caution to the wind and order some ties I was looking at.

Seeing TweedyProf's image of a handrolled printed silk tie, my brain is jogged to ask a question:

 

What is the current preferred construction to order from the somewhat byzantine Cappelli site and achieve an optimal tie? I realize that "optimal" may vary here, but I refer to the discussion that has been frequently had in the EGC thread on varying quality of results in terms of thickness and folds being used in configurations that are not ideal, and of the stock ties having a way too thick interlining.

 

I'm looking at printed silks. Obviously the easiest way to avoid unintended thickness is get the "unlined" (= light lining and hand rolled edge) option, but I've always felt that hand rolled edges are a bit out of place on a dressier foulard tie, which is the ones I was looking at. Anyone care to weigh in? I assume you are all one-time or current Cappelli customers. I'm thinking something in the way of Vanda construction or slightly heavier. My past Cappelli ties are all over the place construction/wearability wise, some good, some great, some weird.

 

You've probably read my thoughts in the Cappelli thread. I think most of the printed silks I have from him would be fine as a 3-fold with light interlining. I have a couple of 5 or 6-folds, which add some volume and are nice but would probably be about as nice as 3-folds. As TweedyProf suggests, you should just email Patrizio about the fabrics that interest you and let him tell you if he thinks any of them need a thicker lining or more folds to achieve what you want.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post
 

Question: Is it ever a good idea to remove the lining from a tie? I have a nice tweed tie that I rarely wear because it is too thick for my liking, however I can't bring myself to throw it away because it is so nice otherwise. Can this, or should this, be attempted?

 

I'm not sure that a completely unlined tweed tie is a good idea, but you could have the interlining changed to something lighter to reduce the bulk. It sounds like David will do that for you. (Which I didn't know until now, although he has made some adjustments to ties that I ordered from him. Great news, since I have a couple from other makers that I'd like to have modified.)

post #949 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post

Question: Is it ever a good idea to remove the lining from a tie? I have a nice tweed tie that I rarely wear because it is too thick for my liking, however I can't bring myself to throw it away because it is so nice otherwise. Can this, or should this, be attempted?

Caustic Man,

Normally no but there are always exceptions and your case is the exception.

So to answer your question, yes, it can be done and yes, you should try it.
post #950 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Six View Post
 

I'm not sure that a completely unlined tweed tie is a good idea, but you could have the interlining changed to something lighter to reduce the bulk. It sounds like David will do that for you. (Which I didn't know until now, although he has made some adjustments to ties that I ordered from him. Great news, since I have a couple from other makers that I'd like to have modified.)

 

Why not inlined for a tweed tie? Too much potential for stretching? Interesting to know that David will do that. Might have to inquire about it. I can already attest that David is a joy to work with. He is doing a special project for me at the moment (1st U.S. regiment tie). P.S. @Sam Hober, yup I'm the on who contacted you about the regimental tie!

post #951 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprout2 View Post

The tiecrafters was a chop job, in fact in light of this conversation I've been gazing at it sadly in the closet.

TweedyProf, not sure how you managed such a rapport or even linguistic fluency with EGC, seems you have some inside channel. For me it was always one-liner emails sent from his smartphone, very fast mind you, but left me at a loss as to how to go on beyond that point.

Sprout2,

Contact Andy the owner at Tiecrafters and tell him your thoughts he might surprise you.

A long time ago I spoke with him and he explained to me how he does his tie alterations - he does a good job for the price but it is more expensive to remake a tie which is often what is needed.

Remaking is totally taking a tie apart and using a new interlining as needed and changing the shape and length etc. then putting the tie back together.
post #952 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hober View Post


Caustic Man,

Normally no but there are always exceptions and your case is the exception.

So to answer your question, yes, it can be done and yes, you should try it.


Full of confidence now. :)

post #953 of 1082

I love StyleForum. This thread brings the wacky lulz.

 

Discoveries made:

  • David Hober and I are both not tax geniuses (tax dunces?)
  • TweedyProf and the editor of the sleevehead blog carry pocket loupes they use to inspect the tip of ties in stores to make sure the pattern lines up
  • TweedyProf has developed an academic taxonomy that interweaves construction considerations with aesthetic hierarchies and applies these insights in a kind of clothing praxis every day, somehow managing to make it out of the door and to school on time even after hours of reasoned analysis
    • TweedyProf and Die Workwear may or may not have convened a conference in which they compared spreadsheets and clicked through 100-page PowerPoint slides on the way seams are stitched
  • DiplomaticTies has 500 Kiton ties collected from eBay, a collection only rivaling that of PTWilliams and his house-furnished-exclusively-through-eBay
  • Caustic Man and I are not alone in owning ties we do not wear and simply look at, or haven't the time to modify
  • Eric whats his name continues to excel at commenting in every thread with his opinion on items he hasn't bought but, he assures you, intends to buy. Runner-up for the Everything I Learned About Life I Learned from StyleForum award
post #954 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post

Why not inlined for a tweed tie? Too much potential for stretching? Interesting to know that David will do that. Might have to inquire about it. I can already attest that David is a joy to work with. He is doing a special project for me at the moment (1st U.S. regiment tie). P.S. @Sam Hober
, yup I'm the on who contacted you about the regimental tie!

Caustic man,

Yes, I remember you and that opens a different subject which I really enjoy - history.

I am inclined to do more military designs in the future.

As for remaking ties apologies for any confusion but we don't normally offer that service for a number of reasons the chief one being that we have more fun making our own ties.

We do at times remake our own ties. On occasion we will remake another makers ties everything is case by case. Actually that is how I am able to comment on the construction of other ties by opening them up.

I don't see a stretching issue but the main point is that if you like a fabric and won't really wear it as is - go for it and see what happens. Maybe the end result will be perfect and maybe not but you won't end up worse off...
post #955 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Six View Post
 

 

You've probably read my thoughts in the Cappelli thread. I think most of the printed silks I have from him would be fine as a 3-fold with light interlining. I have a couple of 5 or 6-folds, which add some volume and are nice but would probably be about as nice as 3-folds. As TweedyProf suggests, you should just email Patrizio about the fabrics that interest you and let him tell you if he thinks any of them need a thicker lining or more folds to achieve what you want.

 

 

I'm not sure that a completely unlined tweed tie is a good idea, but you could have the interlining changed to something lighter to reduce the bulk. It sounds like David will do that for you. (Which I didn't know until now, although he has made some adjustments to ties that I ordered from him. Great news, since I have a couple from other makers that I'd like to have modified.)

 

Thanks, I was planning to do 3 fold since I agree with you. Probably not needed to go for the 20 EUR rolled tip just to get the ligther lining if I can just request that in email.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hober View Post


Sprout2,

Contact Andy the owner at Tiecrafters and tell him your thoughts he might surprise you.

A long time ago I spoke with him and he explained to me how he does his tie alterations - he does a good job for the price but it is more expensive to remake a tie which is often what is needed.

Remaking is totally taking a tie apart and using a new interlining as needed and changing the shape and length etc. then putting the tie back together.

 

Well, there's that fool me once thing.

I'd rather just blacklist when things don't work out after giving them the old college try and move on to giving my business to those that do first-rate work, i.e., you. I don't want to keep sacrificing my clothing babies to the volcano gods in hopes of them spewing out the intended manna blessings I seek.

post #956 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hober View Post


Caustic man,

Yes, I remember you and that opens a different subject which I really enjoy - history.

I am inclined to do more military designs in the future.

As for remaking ties apologies for any confusion but we don't normally offer that service for a number of reasons the chief one being that we have more fun making our own ties.

We do at times remake our own ties. On occasion we will remake another makers ties everything is case by case. Actually that is how I am able to comment on the construction of other ties by opening them up.

I don't see a stretching issue but the main point is that if you like a fabric and won't really wear it as is - go for it and see what happens. Maybe the end result will be perfect and maybe not but you won't end up worse off...


I hope you will do more military designs. Most of the U.S. military ties out there today are cheaply made and with bad fabrics. It really is too bad we don't have the same history of regimental ties that the Brits do, but that at least leaves much room to dabble in the subject.

 

I will attempt the surgery on my tie and report back with my success, or failure.

post #957 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprout2 View Post
 

The tiecrafters was a chop job, in fact in light of this conversation I've been gazing at it sadly in the closet.

 

TweedyProf, not sure how you managed such a rapport or even linguistic fluency with EGC, seems you have some inside channel. For me it was always one-liner emails sent from his smartphone, very fast mind you, but left me at a loss as to how to go on beyond that point.

 

TP definitely seems to have gotten the most detailed responses from Patrizio. But he has answered most of my questions, as long as I've been persistent, confirmed what I've wanted done, and asked him to send me a PayPal invoice. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post
 

Why not inlined for a tweed tie? Too much potential for stretching? Interesting to know that David will do that. Might have to inquire about it. I can already attest that David is a joy to work with. He is doing a special project for me at the moment (1st U.S. regiment tie). P.S. @Sam Hober, yup I'm the on who contacted you about the regimental tie!

 

I would be concerned about the fabric pulling on itself internally while knotting it. It seems like some interlining would alleviate that friction. But it's also likely that I'm making up a non-existent concern.

post #958 of 1082

David, I know that tie makers  (not "tiecrafters") do not like the prospect of offering the wholesale reconstruction of other makers' ties because it opens them up to the liability of not being able to restore the tie to the desired result of the customer, so better to stick to a policy of having full oversight of ties provided in house. However, I don't think this is necessarily always the best idea, especially if the brand image is not the foremost thing to protect. I don't consider the Sam Hober operation about the "brand" per se in terms of heavily branded ties, buy-in to the "Sam Hober" worldview and lifestyle, etc. As your own comments attest, your operation is about construction, construction, construction, and flexibility, and knowledge. I don't see why excellent remakes of ties that need love and TLC shouldn't be in that purview. You can see from this thread that there is burgeoning demand for that from the denizens of the forvm. I would buy hundreds more ties if I knew that I could give you business and have them made less wide and less thick. I pass on many ties that are well designed because I know the construction or sizing is bad.

post #959 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprout2 View Post

I love StyleForum. This thread brings the wacky lulz.

Discoveries made:
  • David Hober and I are both not tax geniuses (tax dunces?)
  • TweedyProf and the editor of the sleevehead blog carry pocket loupes they use to inspect the tip of ties in stores to make sure the pattern lines up
  • TweedyProf has developed an academic taxonomy that interweaves construction considerations with aesthetic hierarchies and applies these insights in a kind of clothing praxis every day, somehow managing to make it out of the door and to school on time even after hours of reasoned analysis
    • TweedyProf and Die Workwear may or may not have convened a conference in which they compared spreadsheets and clicked through 100-page PowerPoint slides on the way seams are stitched
  • DiplomaticTies has 500 Kiton ties collected from eBay, a collection only rivaling that of PTWilliams and his house-furnished-exclusively-through-eBay
  • Caustic Man and I are not alone in owning ties we do not wear and simply look at, or haven't the time to modify
  • Eric whats his name continues to excel at commenting in every thread with his opinion on items he hasn't bought but, he assures you, intends to buy. Runner-up for the Everything I Learned About Life I Learned from StyleForum award

Sprout2,

I have been in denial at my lack of tax skills and for some reason I thought I was smart enough to do everything by hand no software and CPA help.

But now I have started buying Turbotax and I feel much better.

I don't owe less money but I feel better - not sure why...

Sprout2, I am very curious are you an advertising copywriter at your day job?
post #960 of 1082

@sprout2 

 

I do everything by eye. Pocket implements are for amateurs. Also: reasoned analysis, over time, leads to automatic, increasingly expert action. So, I'm only late now and then.

 

Seriously: Why not post your hack job(s)? What went wrong? Would be fun to discuss.

 

On communicating with Patrizio: I think patience and simple emails are easiest mostly because as good as his English is, there are limitations when one gets to technical matters. I keep requests simple, and if he's done a good tie for you, why not just work with that as your standard, the mean. He can deal with the variance appropriately. But again, do post a tie and why you are not satisfied with it. We can all learn by discussing it.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Neckties: A Discussion Thread