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Neckties: A Discussion Thread - Page 48

post #706 of 1082

I'm going through a "purple tie" phase, apparently. I recently realised how versatile purple can be, but - alas - I only have one cheap purple tie (that I bought just to give the color a chance) and now I'm looking for something a little bit more fancy. I'm kind of hesitating between grenadine (grossa?) and shantung.

 

I appreciate Mr. Hober's comments on durability and the risk of unlined ties loosing their shape, and I will take them into account, but in fact my collection of ties is so large (given my limited needs, as I oftentimes work from home) that my most worn ties get perhaps 10-15 days of wear per year, so durability is not my no. 1 concern.

post #707 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by raindog View Post

I'm going through a "purple tie" phase, apparently. I recently realised how versatile purple can be, but - alas - I only have one cheap purple tie (that I bought just to give the color a chance) and now I'm looking for something a little bit more fancy. I'm kind of hesitating between grenadine (grossa?) and shantung

I appreciate Mr. Hober's comments on durability and the risk of unlined ties loosing their shape, and I will take them into account, but in fact my collection of ties is so large (given my limited needs, as I oftentimes work from home) that my most worn ties get perhaps 10-15 days of wear per year, so durability is not my no. 1 concern.

Were you considering a purple silk tie at all? If not, then may I know why? smile.gifwink.gif
Edited by smerf - 1/30/16 at 2:56pm
post #708 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazedstate View Post

When using a double four in hand knot, have any of you noticed it being a little rough on the tie when untying? Maybe I am just over tightening in the first place but the inner fold is hard to loosen. This results in a narrow channel to pull the blade through.

I think you have the answer - you are perhaps making a tight knot.

But normally the tightness won't be a big problem except maybe with a loose wear such as a grenadine then the problem tends to be abrasion.
post #709 of 1082

Hi Gents, 

Am new to this thread but have enjoyed it tremendously. 

I am aware that this is a newbie question, but in general, what are the rules when it comes to your tie knots? What knots are preferred for what collars / ties? When is a slimmer / bulkier knot desirable?

Also, when a tie is removed, is it better to pull out the narrow blade from the knot or "untie" the tie (ie, reverse the order in which the knot was made)? Does the former cause more "harm" to the tie's internal structure than the latter?

Thanks in advance.

post #710 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMarch View Post

Hi Gents, 
Am new to this thread but have enjoyed it tremendously. 
I am aware that this is a newbie question, but in general, what are the rules when it comes to your tie knots? What knots are preferred for what collars / ties? When is a slimmer / bulkier knot desirable?
Also, when a tie is removed, is it better to pull out the narrow blade from the knot or "untie" the tie (ie, reverse the order in which the knot was made)? Does the former cause more "harm" to the tie's internal structure than the latter?
Thanks in advance.

Thunder March,

Reverse when removing your tie.

Grenadines are best with a FIH knot only because Windsor type knots etc tend to make too large of a knot with a grenadine weave - you can make a tight knot but this may shorten the ties life due to abrasion.

There are no rules on knots and ties - wear what you like.
post #711 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hober View Post


Thunder March,

Reverse when removing your tie.

Grenadines are best with a FIH knot only because Windsor type knots etc tend to make too large of a knot with a grenadine weave - you can make a tight knot but this may shorten the ties life due to abrasion.

There are no rules on knots and ties - wear what you like.

Thank you David, for your answer. 

I hope that one day, I will own one of your ties. 

 

Out of curiosity, I have a couple of questions of a more "technical" nature, sorry to bring up something that was discussed a week ago. 

You were discussing with some other forum members, points pertaining to raw silk and wild silk. 

Based on what I remember, raw silk refers to silk with the natural coating intact, and wild silk refers to silk where the moth breaks the coccoon and thus making the silk only suitable for being spun and not woven (thus a lower quality silk). 

 

Both raw silk and wild silk appear to have a slubby nature, but I am assuming (correct me if I'm wrong), that raw silk can mostly be woven (and thus not be of lower quality as wild silk is?) 

So does this follow that raw silk would be more favorable a material to use, to achieve that effect?

I'm also curious to know, what is this "natural coating" and why it is normally removed. Is it to attain the "sheen" that silk is typically associated with?

 

Lastly, in terms of process, why is weaving regarded as superior to spinning? Is it because the individual silk threads / fibres are continuous instead of being broken by the moth?

 

Once again, thanks in advance!

post #712 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by smerf View Post


Were you considering a purple silk tie at all? If not, then may I know why? smile.gifwink.gif

//

www.adandylife.com


Well, as far as my understanding goes, both grenadine and shantung are silk fabrics... but I imagine you are asking about "regular" silk fabrics, like silk twill or satin.

I'm not considering those for this particular order, because I already have one purple twill tie. It is of rather poor quality, as I bought it mostly for experiments (to know if it works for me and with my wardrobe - I loved the result of these experiments, really, grey+purple or navy/blue+purple are both great combinations). Secondly, a vast majority of my ties are "regular" silks, and while I really enjoy some of them (mostly for their prints or other funny patterns, like small woven animals), I'm now looking mostly for those less usual fabrics. For example, I only have one shantung. So this year I'm buying mostly shantung, grenadines, wool, and silk blends, unless I find some stunning printed silk.

 

Other than that, I have nothing against regular silk and would like to try a printed silk 7-fold one day!

post #713 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMarch View Post

Thank you David, for your answer. 
I hope that one day, I will own one of your ties. 

Out of curiosity, I have a couple of questions of a more "technical" nature, sorry to bring up something that was discussed a week ago. 
You were discussing with some other forum members, points pertaining to raw silk and wild silk. 
Based on what I remember, raw silk refers to silk with the natural coating intact, and wild silk refers to silk where the moth breaks the coccoon and thus making the silk only suitable for being spun and not woven (thus a lower quality silk). 

Both raw silk and wild silk appear to have a slubby nature, but I am assuming (correct me if I'm wrong), that raw silk can mostly be woven (and thus not be of lower quality as wild silk is?) 
So does this follow that raw silk would be more favorable a material to use, to achieve that effect?
I'm also curious to know, what is this "natural coating" and why it is normally removed. Is it to attain the "sheen" that silk is typically associated with?

Lastly, in terms of process, why is weaving regarded as superior to spinning? Is it because the individual silk threads / fibres are continuous instead of being broken by the moth?

Once again, thanks in advance!

Thunder March,

"Based on what I remember, raw silk refers to silk with the natural coating intact,"


Yes, although on occasion some silk mills will remove silk - weave and or print and then put the sericin back on the silk either partially or in the same amount as was natural.

"and wild silk refers to silk where the moth breaks the coccoon and thus making the silk only suitable for being spun and not woven (thus a lower quality silk)."

Wild silk is silk that is not domesticated. But yes, what you describe is normally correct.

"Both raw silk and wild silk appear to have a slubby nature, but I am assuming (correct me if I'm wrong), that raw silk can mostly be woven (and thus not be of lower quality as wild silk is?)"

Raw silk is not slubby because it is raw silk if it is slubby it is because of the yarn quality.

All silk can normally be woven.

Sericin is the natural gum and the silk has a more shiny look when it is removed. as a side note it is a very interesting material and science is constantly finding new uses for it.

"Lastly, in terms of process, why is weaving regarded as superior to spinning? Is it because the individual silk threads / fibres are continuous instead of being broken by the moth?"

You mixing up the terms. Reeled silk is higher quality than spun silk and more expensive. Both silks are woven.
post #714 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by raindog View Post


Well, as far as my understanding goes, both grenadine and shantung are silk fabrics... but I imagine you are asking about "regular" silk fabrics, like silk twill or satin.
I'm not considering those for this particular order, because I already have one purple twill tie. It is of rather poor quality, as I bought it mostly for experiments (to know if it works for me and with my wardrobe - I loved the result of these experiments, really, grey+purple or navy/blue+purple are both great combinations). Secondly, a vast majority of my ties are "regular" silks, and while I really enjoy some of them (mostly for their prints or other funny patterns, like small woven animals), I'm now looking mostly for those less usual fabrics. For example, I only have one shantung. So this year I'm buying mostly shantung, grenadines, wool, and silk blends, unless I find some stunning printed silk.

Other than that, I have nothing against regular silk and would like to try a printed silk 7-fold one day!

Raindog,

"Well, as far as my understanding goes, both grenadine and shantung are silk fabrics... but I imagine you are asking about "regular" silk fabrics, like silk twill or satin."

No grenadine is a weave which is often made with pure silk but not always for example we use a very beautiful cashmere/silk grenadine to make ties as well as pure silk grenadine.

Shantung is traditionally woven in Shantung from wild silk and I doubt that more than a small percentage of what is marketed as Shantung is really Shantung. I have heard that Shantung from Shantung is not always silk these days but I have not been to Shantung so I can't say for sure.
post #715 of 1082

Thank you for the clarification Mr. Hober. Indeed, I have never seen other grenadine than 100% silk, hence my assumption.

 

Anyway, for my next tie order I'm only considering 100% silk fabrics/weaves.

post #716 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazedstate View Post
 

 

Received the Battisti ties pretty quickly from eHaberdasher. 

 

 

I adjusted photos slightly to try to accurately reflect color. First impressions are good. Both were advertised as 3.2" in width. The rust melange was only 3". Not that big of a deal.

 

The blue printed wool challis is beautiful and has a soft hand. The interlining is light/medium and feels springy. It ties a great knot and drapes well but feels a little fragile. 

 

The rust wool melange has a bit more texture than I had expected from online photos but I still like it. The wool feels thicker than the blue and it doesn't seem to have any interlining which is a good thing. It also ties a great knot and drapes well. 

 

Both ties seem to be great at the price point I got them at ($55/ea), but I don't think I would pay retail for them ($200+). I have only tried them on to give my thoughts but will update upon first wearing. 

 

You are right, this is an average to mediocre tie whose right price is 50 or even less, but over 200 for a 3 fold machinemade is way overpriced.

post #717 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by SartodiNapoli View Post
 

 

You are right, this is an average to mediocre tie whose right price is 50 or even less, but over 200 for a 3 fold machinemade is way overpriced.

 

Can you elaborate for the less informed members on the reasons why this is "average to mediocre?" 


Edited by Darkside - 1/30/16 at 2:12pm
post #718 of 1082
Because it's not hand made by @SartodiNapoli. 😂

In all seriousness though, I don't think anyone is fooling themselves into thinking that these are made by hand by craftsman like SartodiNapoli or @Sam Hober. The tie is obviously machine sewn. I was commenting on materials used (wool fabric, interlining) and aesthetic quality only.

Not all of us can afford a closet full of bespoke ties and these seem nice for the price to me. Especially compared with some of the high priced name brands that are also machine made.
post #719 of 1082
Thread Starter 

Those seem like a decent pick up a $55 each. When you tie them, can you post a picture here? I'm curious about how well Battisti knot.

post #720 of 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMarch View Post
 

Hi Gents, 

Am new to this thread but have enjoyed it tremendously. 

I am aware that this is a newbie question, but in general, what are the rules when it comes to your tie knots? What knots are preferred for what collars / ties? When is a slimmer / bulkier knot desirable?

Also, when a tie is removed, is it better to pull out the narrow blade from the knot or "untie" the tie (ie, reverse the order in which the knot was made)? Does the former cause more "harm" to the tie's internal structure than the latter?

Thanks in advance.


Hi ThunderMarch,

 

I'm gonna be a bit conservative here: only the four in hand - it always works and you can do so much with it. I never use the windsor because it just looks too triangular. The four in hand is more practical and something that you can't go wrong with ;) 


Edited by smerf - 1/30/16 at 2:53pm
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