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Artisanal Clothing and accessories discussion (MA+, CCP, Layer-0, Paul Harnden, Taichi Murakami, Boris Bidjan Saberi, etc...) - Page 110

post #1636 of 2146
Quote:
Originally Posted by newp View Post
 

Exactly! And I thought, Zam Barrett, the man behind the brand itself should have known out of all people how does his sizing run and what is this specific pants sample he sends to me while being asked for a pants of size 48 EU.

Anyway, I hope to believe it was one of its kind mistake which could be easily fixed in much less humiliating to me way. The problem is it's not fixed even now (but it will be fixed by Paypal eventually anyway now). The necessity to resort of a help of 3rd party saddens me, but no other options, alas.


Newp,

 

 

As I said in my original post, I am not interested in a public back and forth because there is nothing good that can come from it more than waste of time.
you are an anonymous person behind a screen name and you can feel free to post whatever statements you feel like posting.
I am a public person with a brand associated with my name and thousands of customers who expect me to keep their transactions and emails between myself and them private, even if an issue arise.

Now as I said, the more you reply, the more I see the nature of the problem and why I told Terence to stop answering  you and allow me to take care of it. When i did we got nowhere because you  already had  a perspective (which is very off) in your mind and nothing I said and did was going to convince you otherwise, so there was no need to communicate much further.

THERE IS NO DESIGNER working on any meaningful level that knows every aspect of every single product that is made and sold under their name. NONE.  so the idea that you think  I should know this product is a misunderstanding on your part as to how brands work
I am one of the few designers who run my own factory, and even then, with the volume of work that is done its impossible to deal with, and know every aspect of every garment that is made in the company.
However, you would not know that so you assume and make statements that are favorable to the narrative you want to create. When i tried to show you something from my side as a manufacturer and to identify a possible reason to why the pants doesn't fit you, you interpreted that as to me admitting a mistake and as such conclude i am in the wrong so the original terms of our agreement should be voided.
I admitted no wrong, I simply tried to identify what happened to get us where we are with you having a product that isnt working out and why I took the responsibility of attempting to resolve the issue even after the terms of agreement gave me no obligation to do so

I admitted no mistake. the pants you got IS A 48, and was labelled a 48. When I checked the measurements AFTER you sent it back I saw it was slimmer than usual (but still fits a 48), so i honestly told you that one possibility that could have caused this was: It may have shrunk in the dyeing process. (A very real possibility). Instead of respecting my honesty, You latched on to that and is now spreading it everywhere that I made a mistake I refuse to correct.
There was no mistake, it was my effort to identify what might have caused the issue and to honestly tell you why I am making an exception to the no return/refund policy and accepting the pants back to be exchanged NOT to give you a refund.

I have dealt with you before and you did not come across as an unreasonable person, so I was very surprised when I offered you not one, but TWO options and you basically evaded the first, complained about the second (and even ask what if you don't like anything on our backstock, shouldn't you get a refund?)
In March you dealt with Angie (who is no longer an employee of the company) and while i could, i dont see the need to dig up old emails to know what was discussed in the original transaction but we ALWAYS advise overseas clients to verify measurements before buying in a sample sale. I do not know if you did that, but even then, while measurements is a Big Help when buying online, providing measurements is not guarantee the item will fit to your satisfaction as there are other variables such as CUT, BODY TYPE, FABRIC CHOICE etc,

You were basically making every attempt to evade my efforts to address the problem and steer the discussion in a direction favorable to what you wanted, regardless of how unfavorable that would have been to us as a company and not respecting the fact that the choices we gave to you were above and beyond our responsibility.


The part that got me to just say enough is enough is when you started to accuse me and my products of causing you pain and emotional trauma. For me that is a bit much to inject into a discussion about clothing.
I dont know if its a culture difference or maybe a language difference but to accuse me of abusing you  or causing  you emotional pain over a business transaction that is a relatively small one where I was never rude of disrespectful in my communication is just a bit much for me.

In closing as i said before, I have no ill will towards you. i wish you all the best and hope that the issue could have been resolved by exercising one of the two options I gave you, but here we are and as i said the pants will be sold and your payment returned to you

 

 

All the best man.


Edited by Zamb - 8/30/16 at 12:26pm
post #1637 of 2146
the justice porn gets even sweeter
post #1638 of 2146
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdude View Post

a long overdue note on possibly the best service i have had in artisanal retail - Calculus ( re-porter affiliated) online boutique. Graham was incredibly informative, lighting speed in communication and an amazing price on a great item ( ann d sneakers). Cant recommend enough!!

Graham is good people!
post #1639 of 2146
Guys I gotta say with the wormwood and zam conflicts all of you are posting this thread is turning into complete garbage. Can this be moved to private communication or a different thread? I really am interested in artisanal clothing. And I really do feel bad for whomever feels wronged.

At this point I ask this stuff to be either moved to a merchant complaints thread or not mentioned.
post #1640 of 2146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamb View Post


THERE IS NO DESIGNER working on any meaningful level that knows every aspect of every single product that is made and sold under their name. NONE.  so the idea you state that I should know this product is a misunderstanding on your parts as to how brands work

I am sorry I was led to this conclusion. Maybe I was spoiled by artisans like Geoffrey and Maurizio (Altieri), who, despite your words, still KNOW every single aspect about their current products and are involved in every stage of the production (still just in my opinion, I am on the other side of the spectrum, just a mere customer, maybe your opinion on them is more correct then mine which could be blinded by fascination I once had for you too). Anyway you should know better about yourself, and as long as you state you don't know your product I don't have any reasons to oppose it. It was a misunderstanding on my part and I am sorry for it again. 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamb View Post
 

 

In March you dealt with Angie (who is no longer an employee of the company) and while i could, i dont see the need to dig up old emails to know what was discussed in the original transaction but we ALWAYS advice overseas clients to verify measurements before buying in a sample sale. I do not know if you did that, but even then, providing measurements is not guarantee the item will fit to your satisfaction as there are other variables such as CUT, BODY TYPE, FABRIC CHOICE etc,

 

 

I've dealt with you personally. While I was extremely pleased with this fact it has unfortunately led me to a misunderstanding that you know what you were talking about in terms of sizing and as long as I ask for pants to fit 48 EU I will get one. No, you haven't told me the measurements of these pants and honestly I haven't asked for it either. 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamb View Post


I admitted no wrong, I simply tried to identify what happened to get us where we are with you having a product that isnt working out and why I took the responsibility of attempting to resolve the issue even after the terms of agreement gave me no obligation to do so

I admitted no mistake. the pants you got IS A 48, and was labelled a 48. When I checked the measurements AFTER you sent it back I saw it was slimmer than usual (but still fits a 48), so i honestly told you that one possibility that could have caused this was it may have shrunk in the dyeing process. (a very real possibility). Instead of respecting my honesty, You latched on to that and is now spreading it everywhere that i made a mistake I refuse to correct.
There was no mistake, it was my effort to identify what might have caused the issue and to honestly tell you why I am making an exception to the no refund policy and accepting the pants back to be exchanged NOT to give you a refund

And at this point you even refuse to admit your mistake? Still fits a 48? Man, are you still trying to sell these as 48 to another customer? Please sell it to someone who is 46 to avoid any future issues.

These pants were something in between 44 and 46, a slim 46 at best in every aspect of it. No 48 is going to fit in it and walk comfortably (or even button it all). 

If you don't admit this mistake the fact you've made this mistake isn't going anywhere. And you haven't made me an exception to a no refund policy since you have refused to refund me until I was able to open a paypal claim. 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamb View Post

 

I have dealt with you before and you did not come across as an unreasonable person, so I was very surprised when i offered you not one, but TWO options and you basically evaded the first, complained about the second (and even ask what if you don't like anything on our backstock, shouldn't you get a refund?)

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zamb View Post


1. He could exchange the item for a current season item on sale on our webstore and if the cost was more, pay the difference. He wanted an item that was about $40 more than what he had paid me but refused to pay the difference, implying that i should just give him the item as a straight up exchange. I decided not to as I run a business and I didn't think it respectful for him to buy a sample that was four seasons old  but expect me to replace it with a current season item. his basic argument was that with shipping cost and VAT taxes (which i highly doubt he paid but will not even bother to dispute)

 

 

 

In your previous post you have told everyone I have asked for an item $40 more (lies, I was offered this item but once I learned about it's price I told you I don't need it) and implied I should get it as an exchange (lies again). Now at least you state a more closer to a truth issue (like I have evaded it. No, I simply refused). 

Yes, I complained about the second. And my biggest complaint is if you are offered something from your backstock you should see what are you offered. A list of items which I have requested on 1st of August but haven't got it at all. Quite valid complaint one should say: this is exactly what diverted me from the brand and removed the option of wearing your items for me.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamb View Post


The part that got me to just say enough is enough is when you started to accuse me and my products of causing you pain and emotional trauma. For me that is a bit much to inject into a discussion about clothing.
I dont know if its a culture difference or maybe a language difference but to accuse me of abusing you  or causing  you emotional pain over a business transaction that is a relatively small one where I was never rude of disrespectful in my communication is just a bit much for me.

In closing as i said before, I have no ill will towards you. i wish you all the best and hope that the issue could have been resolved by exercising one of the two options I gave you, but here we are and as i said the pants will be sold and your payment returned to you

 

 

All the best man.

 

I never used any words like pain or emotional trauma or emotional pain. Why do you put your words into my mouth.

 

Yes, I feel humiliated by your post-sale treatment, especially by the last 24 days of it, from 1st of August till 24th of August when I kept asking for this list of items I can choose my exchange from but hasn't got any. You were never rude, but respect and silence for several days each time along with your inability to get me the list of question for several weeks don't get along in my book.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinnedk View Post

Guys I gotta say with the wormwood and zam conflicts all of you are posting this thread is turning into complete garbage. Can this be moved to private communication or a different thread? I really am interested in artisanal clothing. And I really do feel bad for whomever feels wronged.

At this point I ask this stuff to be either moved to a merchant complaints thread or not mentioned.
You are right and I feel myself very uneasy being involved in both. While I am all in for this option the only ongoing problem we have so far is mine issue with Zam and a thread like "Zam Barrett brand issues" could indeed harm the image of a brand and I honestly would like to avoid that. Basically I encourage Zam to follow his promise right below and I should shut up as well, unless asked questions I feel myself obliged to answer or accused to do things I didn't.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zamb View Post
 

I am not gonna discuss the specific details publicly and this is the ONLY time i will be addressing this  because I don't see the point to waste my time, his time or anyone here. Nor am I interested in any drama which i see occasionally being drawn out on forums between different people. There is nothing for me to gain from it more than loss of time

post #1641 of 2146
This needs to be diverted in private. Mr Zamb deserves the courtesy of privacy and nuance. He has far more to loose in these sorts of disputes. It's not fair
post #1642 of 2146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojo1990 View Post

This needs to be diverted in private. Mr Zamb deserves the courtesy of privacy and nuance. He has far more to loose in these sorts of disputes. It's not fair

I have discussed it in private for a long long time with him and I don't enjoy this conversation either. Hope this post is the last one regarding this case from either parties, be it me, Zam or any 3rd parties.

post #1643 of 2146
Thread Starter 
Boutique Roma has a webstore now:

https://boutique-roma.ch/

The short L-0 coat looks great:

https://boutique-roma.ch/id16410175/#main
post #1644 of 2146
Quote:
Originally Posted by newp View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by skeen7908 View Post

I don't understand this


It's a sample : surely you don't know how the sizing may turn out before you manufacture the samples because of shrinkage etc associated with the dyeing etc

Hence the need to create samples


Either way, pretty silly not to ask for measurements as sizes can be all over the place for these types of clothes even normal production runs
Exactly! And I thought, Zam Barrett, the man behind the brand itself should have known out of all people how does his sizing run and what is this specific pants sample he sends to me while being asked for a pants of size 48 EU.
Anyway, I hope to believe it was one of its kind mistake which could be easily fixed in much less humiliating to me way. The problem is it's not fixed even now (but it will be fixed by Paypal eventually anyway now). The necessity to resort of a help of 3rd party saddens me, but no other options, alas.

Just to clarify I thought you were in the wrong. I wasn't agreeing with you

And you may be insane
post #1645 of 2146
LOL at above....

on a side note, anyone seen this jacket at under $1100

https://www.ssense.com/en-us/men/product/11-by-boris-bidjan-saberi/black-hooded-zip-up-jacket/1653213

post #1646 of 2146

just ordered the new relaxed lined biker (non leather) and the measurements i got for the sleeves didnt seem that bad , only a few inches more than my other jackets which are normally a bit short in the arms anyway so hoping i can make it work ....

post #1647 of 2146
1560 GBP for that L-0 coat 😁 maybe next year
post #1648 of 2146
Thread Starter 
What's the "relaxed" part of the biker? Just pockets? The cut seems the same
post #1649 of 2146

the measurements i got for a size 52 are -

 

Pit to pit - 21.2” / 54cm
Sleeve length (from the shoulder) - 29.1” / 74cm
Jacket length (measured on the rear including collar) - 30.6” / 77.8cm
 
seems to fit like most size 52 of other brands ive bought before so fingers crossed !
 
ps its this one
 
post #1650 of 2146

also just bought 3 pairs of pants from zam so hope everything goes smoothly , never had a major problem so far ...

 

and the grey a1923 reverse horse boots from holger , its been an expensive week so far !

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