or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › General › Current Events, Power and Money › Migrants, Immigrants, Refugees, and Aliens in Euro-Zone
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Migrants, Immigrants, Refugees, and Aliens in Euro-Zone - Page 149

post #2221 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post

I read an account of a Great White attack that creeped me out for years. The narrator was was spearfishing tuna off Catalina in deep water . Something caught his eye and as he was trying to focus he realized it was a Great White rising from the depths mouth open towards him . He managed to turn his gun in time to get off a glancing shot just before the shark hit him . People in the boat he was from said he flew 8 feet into the air. They found him floating unconscious but otherwise unharmed. He recounted how for a long time he could not stare into the deep depths without seeing that shark coming up at him. Being a spear fisherman myself I've often found myself thinking about that that improbable but scary as hell scenario

Not all Great Whites are man-eaters.


Not sure if serious but no great whites are "man eaters" surfers and divers are mistaken for seals or sea lions

post #2222 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by suited View Post

Our immigration policy is the only reason we have to choose between privacy and security.

Many of your points are perfectly cogent, even if rooted in value judgments different from my own. This is laughably delusional.
post #2223 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Find Finn View Post

As long as not more especially european muslim aren't take a more active and public stance against salafism and hate preachers, it's only going to go one way and it's not forward.

this is not an unreasonable position you have, but for something which is no fault of your own, there is little to no coverage of any activity, often public, against extremism. note that salafism itself isn't the cause of extremism, but can be correlated, just like emotion and anger are the path to the dark side. in fact, religiosity is higher among many salafists, whereas most extremists seem to be devoid of much scholarship (the ivory coast attackers were sitting around drinking beers; a german journalist who travelled to report on ISIS mentioned little to no religious activity; several foreign fighters who left the UK had just purchased "islam for dummies" books off Amazon before going -- maybe that should be a trigger to catch would-be foreign fighters). a major barrier to outspoken moderates is that there is no interest in magnifying their activities because it's much more exciting to find the nutjob weirdy beardy who sits at the pulpit and screams about divorcing oneself from the society (something for which there is an explicit and clear precedent against, but of course the guy shouting doesn't care or likely know?).

so when there is a movement, an effort, to speak out against what barbarity these folks seek, either the goal posts are moved or little attention is afforded. and in the US, many are not just sitting around with nothing to do. Around 10% of physicians are muslims while muslims make up just 1-3% of the population; the rate of higher education is much greater compared to the general population; most of these people want to get on with their lives and have to worry probably about the mortgage or their children doing well in school or what have you. but don't think that just because you see little coverage there is no effort going on to combat it. and all the while you have lunatics taking the pulpit to capitalize politically which further discourages anyone from doing anything.

to be honest, i probably wouldn't even be safe going somewhere like this, as arabs/muslims have told me these folks would just jump you no matter who or what you are.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35890960
Quote:
Certainly, many of those who joined IS from the area did not come from particularly religious backgrounds.

Salah Abdeslam and his elder brother Brahim - who blew himself up in the Paris attacks - used to run a cafe in Molenbeek that sold alcohol and was closed down for drug offences. One friend of the brothers who used to hang out there told me he would regularly see Brahim Abdeslam "watching IS videos, with a joint in one hand, and a beer in another". He said Brahim would spout off radical statements but that no-one took him seriously.
Another friend showed me a video from a Brussels nightclub of the two Abdeslam brothers on a night out with girls, drinking and dancing - this was February 2015, just months before they started to plan the attacks in Paris.

this is a good read if you are actually interested in understanding rather than simplified political bullet point arguments
http://www.egmontinstitute.be/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/egmont.papers.81_online-versie.pdf
post #2224 of 2656
There's hardly enough of a sample size to make any kind of determinations about radicalization in the US, but I wonder if Islamic extremism is just the ideology of choice for a different brand of social outcast. It was Red Pill autistic weirdness for some of the white school shooters, and it was this perverse brand of Islam for guys like the Tsarnaevs. Would they have turned violent if Islam didn't exist? Are they any more likely to turn violent because their family was Muslim? Hard to say for the US. Fucked up people seem to find rationalizations for their violent impulses, even if they need to create their own.
post #2225 of 2656
Also, the Belgian police appear to be totally useless, which isn't all that surprising I guess. Back in the 70s/80s they had the same problems finding members of l'Armée Rouge who seemed to move about with considerable ease.
post #2226 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

There's hardly enough of a sample size to make any kind of determinations about radicalization in the US, but I wonder if Islamic extremism is just the ideology of choice for a different brand of social outcast. It was Red Pill autistic weirdness for some of the white school shooters, and it was this perverse brand of Islam for guys like the Tsarnaevs. Would they have turned violent if Islam didn't exist? Are they any more likely to turn violent because their family was Muslim? Hard to say for the US. Fucked up people seem to find rationalizations for their violent impulses, even if they need to create their own.

That would make sense if this was USA only thing. This happens also in places like Nigeria, Indonesia, Bangladesh etc. Islam is promising pussy in afterlife for martydom these people think they are going to heaven however deluded it may seem for you. That's why they give their lives so easily or kill so easily. If this was only looking for rationalization it would happen more uniformly across all faiths.
post #2227 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

There's hardly enough of a sample size to make any kind of determinations about radicalization in the US, but I wonder if Islamic extremism is just the ideology of choice for a different brand of social outcast. It was Red Pill autistic weirdness for some of the white school shooters, and it was this perverse brand of Islam for guys like the Tsarnaevs. Would they have turned violent if Islam didn't exist? Are they any more likely to turn violent because their family was Muslim? Hard to say for the US. Fucked up people seem to find rationalizations for their violent impulses, even if they need to create their own.


Well you know the saw "Every village had an idiot until the internet .Now the idiots have their own village". The interface between modern educated worldly types who see a future of dwindling opportunity and old time barbarism and superstition is pretty thin in a lot of muslim countries. It would seem very easy to manipulate something as amorphous as a dogmatic religion to ones own ends

post #2228 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

this is not an unreasonable position you have, but for something which is no fault of your own, there is little to no coverage of any activity, often public, against extremism. note that salafism itself isn't the cause of extremism, but can be correlated, just like emotion and anger are the path to the dark side. in fact, religiosity is higher among many salafists, whereas most extremists seem to be devoid of much scholarship (the ivory coast attackers were sitting around drinking beers; a german journalist who travelled to report on ISIS mentioned little to no religious activity; several foreign fighters who left the UK had just purchased "islam for dummies" books off Amazon before going -- maybe that should be a trigger to catch would-be foreign fighters). a major barrier to outspoken moderates is that there is no interest in magnifying their activities because it's much more exciting to find the nutjob weirdy beardy who sits at the pulpit and screams about divorcing oneself from the society (something for which there is an explicit and clear precedent against, but of course the guy shouting doesn't care or likely know?).
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
so when there is a movement, an effort, to speak out against what barbarity these folks seek, either the goal posts are moved or little attention is afforded. and in the US, many are not just sitting around with nothing to do. Around 10% of physicians are muslims while muslims make up just 1-3% of the population; the rate of higher education is much greater compared to the general population; most of these people want to get on with their lives and have to worry probably about the mortgage or their children doing well in school or what have you. but don't think that just because you see little coverage there is no effort going on to combat it. and all the while you have lunatics taking the pulpit to capitalize politically which further discourages anyone from doing anything.

to be honest, i probably wouldn't even be safe going somewhere like this, as arabs/muslims have told me these folks would just jump you no matter who or what you are.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35890960
Quote:
Certainly, many of those who joined IS from the area did not come from particularly religious backgrounds.

Salah Abdeslam and his elder brother Brahim - who blew himself up in the Paris attacks - used to run a cafe in Molenbeek that sold alcohol and was closed down for drug offences. One friend of the brothers who used to hang out there told me he would regularly see Brahim Abdeslam "watching IS videos, with a joint in one hand, and a beer in another". He said Brahim would spout off radical statements but that no-one took him seriously.
Another friend showed me a video from a Brussels nightclub of the two Abdeslam brothers on a night out with girls, drinking and dancing - this was February 2015, just months before they started to plan the attacks in Paris.

this is a good read if you are actually interested in understanding rather than simplified political bullet point arguments
http://www.egmontinstitute.be/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/egmont.papers.81_online-versie.pdf

At least here, there is a VERY STRONG correlation between Salafist mosques and foreign fighters, it seems that they are very skilled at radicalizing and can do it at an astonishing pace. One mosque has ties to upwards of 90% of all foreign fighters coming from here. They even managed to radicalize a 16 yo girl in a month, she went from be atheist to being arrested with explosives ready for jihad in a month, she and her 24yo BF (former ISIS fighter) both have ties to the same mosque. To me at least most foreign fighters seem to have in common, they are all easily suggestible, not fully baked, former criminals, who meet someone who is able to sell them on becoming fighters.

http://www.thelocal.dk/20160308/danish-teen-planned-to-bomb-schools-police


Even what is regarded as moderate mosques have been caught with their hands down the cookie jar and having invited hate preachers. 31 mosques and islamic assertions were out after a documentary went out on national TV showing them preaching killing jews, gays, stoning etc. etc. and condemn the doc and not their own actions. Which is completely insane.

http://www.thelocal.dk/20160229/denmark-mosque-teaches-stoning-and-whipping

Completely get why moderate muslims try to hide, but if you identify as a muslim, you will automatically get put into the same basket as the bearded wonders, which will only bite you in the ass. As long as these mosques are able to get 1000+ to attend friday prayer, we have a problem which will end up blowing up in everyones face (no pun intended). If people take a stance once and for all and say, we won't have it, they will have to change practice, but we all know this won't happen, sadly.

The 10% of physicians are muslims to some degree just proves my point from a while back, about the immigrants, who go to the US vs. Europe.

There are plenty of areas in Europe, where it doesn't matter which religion you have and what you look like, what matters is that you are not from there Hackney "murder mile" in London is/was a good example of this.
post #2229 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

Also, the Belgian police appear to be totally useless, which isn't all that surprising I guess. Back in the 70s/80s they had the same problems finding members of l'aimée Rouge who seemed to move about with considerable ease.

NSA/CIA have been quoted saying that the belgian police had been warned by them, the turkish immigration authorities warned them as well after deporting one of the bombers twice. So its safe to say we are way passed appears.


I'm still laughing at this.

0:08-> Least dangerous looking cop ever.
post #2230 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post

That would make sense if this was USA only thing. This happens also in places like Nigeria, Indonesia, Bangladesh etc. Islam is promising pussy in afterlife for martydom these people think they are going to heaven however deluded it may seem for you. That's why they give their lives so easily or kill so easily. If this was only looking for rationalization it would happen more uniformly across all faiths.

The distinction between the US and other countries is kind of the point though. It is barely a problem here, and I suspect it's because radical Islam is much more appealing under certain circumstances. People who are poor, disaffected, don't feel secure, feel isolated from their society, etc, are much more likely to be drawn into extremist ideology. People with a previous Muslim background may be more vulnerable, but you need some kind of external pressure to be tempted. It's easy to see how much of the Muslim world fits into those groups, and how Muslims in Europe might as well.

In the US? A lot less so. I'd venture that's why we have a lot less domestic extremism. It's basically loners or extremely small groups, basically analogous to how school shooters self-radicalize.
post #2231 of 2656
Thread Starter 
Europe is Star Trek super-educated Right Side of History science multicultural Dawkins Foucault modern.


I would be shocked; shocked! to see the native population suddenly turn on its exotic menagerie migrant-citizens.

Hxstory never repeats itself.
post #2232 of 2656
what has Dawkins to do with all of this?
post #2233 of 2656
Everything comes back to Dawkins. Everything.
post #2234 of 2656

multicultural-Foucault-postmodern and Dawkins? Not sure that's compatible, anyway if you check his twitter it's pretty obvious he is not in the self-hating/decadent hipster camp, he is more in the Sam Harris camp.
post #2235 of 2656
Dawkins is a fucking intellectual lightweight who made a career by dazzling postmenopausal audience with his awkward "good looks" and low ball arguments. Thank god he is not black.
Wanna admire another celebrity intellectual? Read French celebrity philosopher Bernard-Henri Levy.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Events, Power and Money
Styleforum › Forums › General › Current Events, Power and Money › Migrants, Immigrants, Refugees, and Aliens in Euro-Zone