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Migrants, Immigrants, Refugees, and Aliens in Euro-Zone - Page 143

post #2131 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

Aside from the fractional crazies at both ends, the UK has had much less of a marginalization issue and has had tremendous success in the last 10 years working hand in hand with muslim communities.

But it's the fractional crazies at the ends who blow shit up. I'm not worried about Ahmed down the street who thinks Jews pulled off 9-11. I'm even acquaintances with a few of those guys. I'm worried about the guy who believes it enough to bomb a school or subway.
post #2132 of 2656
No government in EU is capable of stopping these people. They always wait for terrorist act to take place before they bust down doors and make arrests/investigations. Only vigilante groups connected to police or security services can stop these people. Fat chance of that happening in today's limp-wristed Europe.
EU laws are too civilised to deal with them, so no tools , no proper channels to deal with this mess = we going to keep dieing for the benefit of liberalism and multiculturalism.
post #2133 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLMountainMan View Post

But it's the fractional crazies at the ends who blow shit up. I'm not worried about Ahmed down the street who thinks Jews pulled off 9-11. I'm even acquaintances with a few of those guys. I'm worried about the guy who believes it enough to bomb a school or subway.

Sorry for not clarifying...I'm talking about the folks that promote marginalization, so supremacists/ultranationalists like EDL. If you take those out of the picture, there doesn't seem to be much resistance otherwise to proper integration in the UK i.e. no ghettoification, if you will. This isn't the case in Paris, Belgium, etc.

If you've gone to London recently you'll see that to be a "foreigner" is actually to blend in, finding a British person there is like playing where's waldo.
post #2134 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

Maybe it's just an inartful statement, but "secure Muslim communities before they radicalize" has a couple layers of concern to it. If a group hasn't radicalized yet, why does it need securing? What does "securing" mean, anyway, especially since we don't have Muslim "no-go" areas or ghettos in this country. Are we occupying? Sending people to re-education camps?

Also, Cruz trotted out the tired specter of needing to "secure the southern border to prevent terrorist infiltration," which remains one of the dumbest canards in both the terrorism and immigration debates.


No more than two years ago, to speak in the US about European "no go zones," was to be labelled a paranoid right winger that was falling for the propaganda of Faux News. Now the existence of these neighborhoods throughout Europe are not questioned by even the most ardent on the US left.

Does the US not have similar areas? While I'd not label it a "no go zone" Dearborn, MI has seen some events and developments that should have folks thinking. I'm sure there are other areas in the US like this. I'd not be so quick to dismiss the thought such developments are not happening in the US or might happen in the near future.
post #2135 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

No more than two years ago, to speak in the US about European "no go zones," was to be labelled a paranoid right winger that was falling for the propaganda of Faux News. Now the existence of these neighborhoods throughout Europe are not questioned by even the most ardent on the US left.

Does the US not have similar areas? While I'd not label it a "no go zone" Dearborn, MI has seen some events and developments that should have folks thinking. I'm sure there are other areas in the US like this. I'd not be so quick to dismiss the thought such developments are not happening in the US or might happen in the near future.

I live in Minneapolis, one of the "hot beds" of Islamic extremism in America. If you add Al Shabaab to the list, unfortunately we have the ignominious reputation for sending the most Islamic fighters abroad. There aren't no go zones here, not even remotely. I actually frequent Somali-majority neighborhoods quite often as a few of my favorite bars are nearby, and they're perfectly fine.

The US doesn't have anything close to the marginalization factor that is present in continental Europe.
post #2136 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nil View Post

The US doesn't have anything close to the marginalization factor that is present in continental Europe.

I don't disagree with that. It doesn't mean it's inconceivable to happen in the US however nor that there are not now currently areas where religious strife has not happened. It is indisputable that folks trying to "witness" their Xtian faith in Dearborn have been attacked by Muslims for doing so. I'm not saying this is rampant or representative but to ignore it is folly, IMO. As I pointed out talk of "no go zones" just a couple of years ago was to get one labelled as part of the VRWC that had drank the Faux News koolaide.

I don't think anyone is questioning their existence at this point...
post #2137 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by suited View Post

How do you interpret Cruz's statement?

His statement is basically few empty words he need to say because he is a presidential candidate and he can't afford to stay silent on the matter. How the hell he would imagine it would be achieved anyway?

Every sane person by now knows that only way to combat muslim extremism is limited immigration from muslim countries and not giving an inch on our values. Helps if the muslims are educated ones like probably most of those USA gets, instead of piss-poor peasants EU gets. Once you have as many muslims as Belgium or UK the troubles are only a matter of time.
post #2138 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

No solid idea, honestly. I only saw it quoted here and haven't read/heard it in context.
But with that caveat, your interpretation here strikes me as a reasonable one:
Assuming that's correct, though, I'm not sure what what "empower" is supposed to mean in real-world terms rather than empty rhetoric. Is he proposing to give them some legal authority they don't currently have?

I'm sure it was intended to be vague and sound more extreme than something Cruz would actually put forward if he were president, considering that he has to compete with whatever Trump tweets. The answer he gave in the debate is closer to his position, I assume.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post

Every sane person by now knows that only way to combat muslim extremism is limited immigration from muslim countries and not giving an inch on our values. Helps if the muslims are educated ones like probably most of those USA gets, instead of piss-poor peasants EU gets. Once you have as many muslims as Belgium or UK the troubles are only a matter of time.

It helps, but exactly how much is up for debate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/opinion/the-madrassa-myth.html?_r=0
Quote:
We examined the educational backgrounds of 75 terrorists behind some of the most significant recent terrorist attacks against Westerners. We found that a majority of them are college-educated, often in technical subjects like engineering. In the four attacks for which the most complete information about the perpetrators' educational levels is available -- the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, the attacks on the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, the 9/11 attacks, and the Bali bombings in 2002 -- 53 percent of the terrorists had either attended college or had received a college degree. As a point of reference, only 52 percent of Americans have been to college. The terrorists in our study thus appear, on average, to be as well educated as many Americans.
post #2139 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

If you've gone to London recently you'll see that to be a "foreigner" is actually to blend in, finding a British person there is like playing where's waldo.

It's not THAT bad, of course there are a lot of expats buying up real estate like its $ candy, but there are plenty of Brits in London, you just don't see them in the day time as they have jobs and no one can afford to live in zone 1 anymore.
post #2140 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

No solid idea, honestly. I only saw it quoted here and haven't read/heard it in context.
But with that caveat, your interpretation here strikes me as a reasonable one:
Assuming that's correct, though, I'm not sure what what "empower" is supposed to mean in real-world terms rather than empty rhetoric. Is he proposing to give them some legal authority they don't currently have?
I have no idea what Cruz meant but a reasonable discussion would be on whether NY's mayor DiBlasio's reversal of the NYCPD anti-terrorism task force's policy of surveillance of Muslim communities was a good or bad thing. It may take some google-fu to find it, but basically CAIR or someone similar sued the NYPD a few years ago and upon taking office DiBlasio determined to capitulate rather than fight (presumably as a policy choice, not because of his view of likelihood of prevailing on the merits). One element of the settlement is that the NYPD was required to take down from their website their report on terrorist activity/support in the Muslim communities but, naturally, before they did, many people copied it and are hosting it so you can probably find it. This was about three months ago.
post #2141 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by suited View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post

Every sane person by now knows that only way to combat muslim extremism is limited immigration from muslim countries and not giving an inch on our values. Helps if the muslims are educated ones like probably most of those USA gets, instead of piss-poor peasants EU gets. Once you have as many muslims as Belgium or UK the troubles are only a matter of time.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
It helps, but exactly how much is up for debate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/opinion/the-madrassa-myth.html?_r=0
Quote:
We examined the educational backgrounds of 75 terrorists behind some of the most significant recent terrorist attacks against Westerners. We found that a majority of them are college-educated, often in technical subjects like engineering. In the four attacks for which the most complete information about the perpetrators' educational levels is available -- the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, the attacks on the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, the 9/11 attacks, and the Bali bombings in 2002 -- 53 percent of the terrorists had either attended college or had received a college degree. As a point of reference, only 52 percent of Americans have been to college. The terrorists in our study thus appear, on average, to be as well educated as many Americans.

Those were western educated, the migrants who are hitting europes shores at the moment are educated from ME universities, which degrees aren't recognized in Europe/USA due to the low quality, if they had lived up to the standard required most would have been able to bypass the asylum proces, get a green card and job right out the gate. Most engineering fields have 100% employment rates and are screaming for qualified workers, which they are not. So it might sound great that they all hold uni degrees, but they aren't worth the paper they are written on.
post #2142 of 2656
I see an opportunity for Trump University, Europe.
post #2143 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

Sorry for not clarifying...I'm talking about the folks that promote marginalization, so supremacists/ultranationalists like EDL. If you take those out of the picture, there doesn't seem to be much resistance otherwise to proper integration in the UK i.e. no ghettoification, if you will. This isn't the case in Paris, Belgium, etc.

If you've gone to London recently you'll see that to be a "foreigner" is actually to blend in, finding a British person there is like playing where's waldo.

London is approx 50% British between like bank-chelsea, which is what I assume most people are talking about by London. Obviously to the east it gets significantly less. My sister lived on brick lane and would have middle eastern men shout sexual comments at her on a daily basis there, not a fan of those parts of the city.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/British_Greater_London_2011_census.png
post #2144 of 2656
Aren't they more Bengali/indian around brick lane? You can look forward to them getting force out by rising property prices in that area.
post #2145 of 2656
Holland has more mosques and muslinz than Belgia. Why ahlams hate Belgian freedumb?
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