or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › General › Current Events, Power and Money › Migrants, Immigrants, Refugees, and Aliens in Euro-Zone
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Migrants, Immigrants, Refugees, and Aliens in Euro-Zone - Page 136

post #2026 of 2656
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchausen View Post

And if evangies are "radical christians" then that just reinforces the point that radical christians are not anything like radical muslims.

I am a far right White Christian Anglo-Saxon Protestant evangelical Republican conservative white-privileged land owning literate white collar border-stopping oppressor, and not even I have cut off someone's head.
post #2027 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post

I am a far right White Christian Anglo-Saxon Protestant evangelical Republican conservative white-privileged land owning literate white collar border-stopping oppressor, and not even I have cut off someone's head.
Yet.
post #2028 of 2656
Holiday in Italy:
post #2029 of 2656
Thread Starter 
Oh its a jolly 'oliday with MaryMaribuk
post #2030 of 2656
OJFC. Grow up, Finn. Christianity evolved and continues to evolve and become more diverse because of relentless and well-deserved criticism.

Treating Islam like the drunk racist uncle who should be accommodated and patronized does nothing to force it to evolve and basically says a big "fuck you" to the hundreds of millions of Muslims who have to live with that shit. Most victims of Islamic terrorism are Muslim.

Criticizing Islam is tough. God forbid, you might have to take a moral stance, admit one culture has certain superior aspects, or have the "intelligentsia" frown upon you. But blathering on about cultural relativism as Uncle Mohammed gropes your cousin Ayaan is doing nothing to help anyone and is destroying your own soul in the process.
post #2031 of 2656
Yea, but Christian reformers and critics always had a benefit of the New Testament text that is very idealistic and pacifist...and all about love love love. So critics can never be accused of rejecting Christ , because they can always defend themselves with the book and say : You have wandered too far from the text, come back.
What Islam critics can do ? To criticize Islam is to essentially reject it. Am I wrong? Is there a nice version of islam that has a message of love, tolerance and pacifism? I know some people like to crawl into :"It is all interpretation of the text", defence, but I don't buy it. If text is flawed you cannot distill anything out of it.
Christians had 100 years of protestant wars because there was an alternative to what Papal mafia was doing an obvious alternative based in dogma. What is there for Muslims to do what are they going to lean on in their book?
post #2032 of 2656
Meh, there are indeed peace loving Moslems, so they must have found a way to reconcile peacefulness and modern civilization with Islam. Its certainly possible.
(Directed at Medwed)
post #2033 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medwed View Post

Yea, but Christian reformers and critics always had a benefit of the New Testament text that is very idealistic and pacifist...and all about love love love. So critics can never be accused of rejecting Christ , because they can always defend themselves with the book and say : You have wandered too far from the text, come back.
What Islam critics can do ? To criticize Islam is to essentially reject it. Am I wrong? Is there a nice version of islam that has a message of love, tolerance and pacifism? I know some people like to crawl into :"It is all interpretation of the text", defence, but I don't buy it. If text is flawed you cannot distill anything out of it.
Christians had 100 years of protestant wars because there was an alternative to what Papal mafia was doing an obvious alternative based in dogma. What is there for Muslims to do what are they going to lean on in their book?
Yes, you are wrong on both prongs of your argument.

From the Book of Matthew (no, not the musical):

And if your hand—even your stronger hand—causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away.

So if your eye—even your good eye—causes you to lust, gouge it out and throw it away.


From Ephesians:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.


I'm no expert on the Koran but am pretty sure there's lots of peace, love, and happiness stuff in there.
post #2034 of 2656

My books better than your book:revolve:

post #2035 of 2656
Islam is a bit worse than christianity because its specific and because in Christianity you can basically bury your head in the sand and pretend that the Old Testament doesnt exist.

But theres plenty of wiggle room there to be muslim and a decent person as many are.

If the billions that Saudi Arabia and Qatar have spent financing radical sheikhs and mosques around the arab world had been spent on the opposite, you would have a very different islamic world. SOciety here was actually better in the earlier part of last century, before the gulf monarchies found oil under their asses.
post #2036 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by alan View Post

Islam is a bit worse than christianity because its specific and because in Christianity you can basically bury your head in the sand and pretend that the Old Testament doesnt exist.

But theres plenty of wiggle room there to be muslim and a decent person as many are.

If the billions that Saudi Arabia and Qatar have spent financing radical sheikhs and mosques around the arab world had been spent on the opposite, you would have a very different islamic world. SOciety here was actually better in the earlier part of last century, before the gulf monarchies found oil under their asses.

Sorry, I genuinely don't understand what you mean by "more specific". Could you explain?

And where's the rule that says "in Christianity you can . . . pretend the Old Testament doesn't exist?" I'm not religious, so I'm not upset by people being Cafeteria Catholics or the equivalent. But if you're pretending that half of your religion's holy book doesn't exist because it says things that are inconsistent with how you prefer to live your corporeal life, I'd say while you may be socially and culturally a _______, you're not really a _________ in the religious sense.
Why wouldn't exactly the same logic apply with Islam? I'm sure lots of folks who identify as Moslems bury their heads in the sand (and there's sure a lot of that where they live, haaaaayyyyy-o!) and pretend inconvenient parts of the Koran don't exist. How is that any different? Is there something that makes picking and choosing the bits you like a legitimate way to be Christian but not a legitimate way to be Moslem?
post #2037 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Sorry, I genuinely don't understand what you mean by "more specific". Could you explain?

And where's the rule that says "in Christianity you can . . . pretend the Old Testament doesn't exist?" I'm not religious, so I'm not upset by people being Cafeteria Catholics or the equivalent. But if you're pretending that half of your religion's holy book doesn't exist because it says things that are inconsistent with how you prefer to live your corporeal life, I'd say while you may be socially and culturally a _______, you're not really a _________ in the religious sense.
Why wouldn't exactly the same logic apply with Islam? I'm sure lots of folks who identify as Moslems bury their heads in the sand (and there's sure a lot of that where they live, haaaaayyyyy-o!) and pretend inconvenient parts of the Koran don't exist. How is that any different? Is there something that makes picking and choosing the bits you like a legitimate way to be Christian but not a legitimate way to be Moslem?

I am very godless but let me take a stab at answering your question here. Christ created a new covenant and he became the mediator in man's relationship with god. Now, there is as usual conflicting text on whether this means a wholesale replacement of the old laws. Some indicate a continuity, but in a mediated form, and others indicate replacement. If I understand things correctly man's relationship with God became personal, through Christ, so it's not that the old laws were replaced so much as they're obsolete. As with all things obsolete, they can safely be ignored.
post #2038 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Is there something that makes picking and choosing the bits you like a legitimate way to be Christian but not a legitimate way to be Moslem?

Uh...yeah... there is. Pretty much every Christian denomination teaches that the old testament has been abrogated to some degree by the new, or at least to the extent that it outlines the covenant between God and Israel, since most of us weren't a party to it.

As far as I know there's nothing comparable for Islam. Certainly they don't teach that the early, peace-loving Mohammad supersedes all the mean parts written by the later Mohammad -- the conqueror who screwed kids and massacred nonbelievers.
post #2039 of 2656
Not having spent time in any house of religion outside of weddings, funerals and such in 35 years or so, I'll take y'alls word for it. I don't remember (to the extent I remember any of my half-assed Methodist indoctrination) being taught that there had been an abrogation -- I just remember being taught they were all books of the Bible. But admittedly that was a lot of years and a lot of brain cells ago.
post #2040 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Not having spent time in any house of religion outside of weddings, funerals and such in 35 years or so, I'll take y'alls word for it. I don't remember (to the extent I remember any of my half-assed Methodist indoctrination) being taught that there had been an abrogation -- I just remember being taught they were all books of the Bible. But admittedly that was a lot of years and a lot of brain cells ago.

Well, ask yourself why Xtians don't have to slaughter goats anymore if you don't think the New Covenant changes things. wink.gif
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Events, Power and Money
Styleforum › Forums › General › Current Events, Power and Money › Migrants, Immigrants, Refugees, and Aliens in Euro-Zone