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Migrants, Immigrants, Refugees, and Aliens in Euro-Zone - Page 100

post #1486 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

I don't know what "qualitatively simpler" is supposed to mean, but is it easier to identify a person's ancestry from his DNA than his eye color? Sure looks that way.

Based on what is and isn't in 23andMe's marketing? Also, the question was "race", not "ancestry". "Ancestry" is really just a label for the sum of your genetic inputs, not a category or descriptor of the sort people are trying to use here.
post #1487 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Try putting your emphasis on the word "perfect."
Sorry still cannot measure something if you don't know what it is.

Chinese have a proverb: "it is very hard to catch a black cat in a dark cellar , especially if the cat is not there."
post #1488 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medwed View Post

Sorry still cannot measure something if you don't know what it is.

Chinese have a proverb: "it is very hard to catch a black cat in a dark cellar , especially if the cat is not there."

That's racist.
post #1489 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Based on what is and isn't in 23andMe's marketing? Also, the question was "race", not "ancestry". "Ancestry" is really just a label for the sum of your genetic inputs, not a category or descriptor of the sort people are trying to use here.

As opposed to race? Race just means lineage, which, incidentally, is the sum of your genetic inputs.
post #1490 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medwed View Post

Sorry still cannot measure something if you don't know what it is.

So if they say the river just peaked at ten feet, but they only measured from one place instead of the entire surface down to the atom, you dismiss the measurement as meaningless?
post #1491 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

As opposed to race? Race just means lineage, which, incidentally, is the sum of your genetic inputs.

What "race" are those little folks you posted? Why do they look so different from, say, Kenyans?
post #1492 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

What "race" are those little folks you posted? Why do they look so different from, say, Kenyans?

Because they're negritos from halfway across the world?
post #1493 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

As opposed to race? Race just means lineage, which, incidentally, is the sum of your genetic inputs.

FIne, accepted. Which makes the notion that you can rank different "races" according to inherent "intelligence" completely nonsensical.
post #1494 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

FIne, accepted. Which makes the notion that you can rank different "races" according to inherent "intelligence" completely nonsensical.

Why? Race can refer to a family, a clan, a country, a continent, or the entire human race (if you like). But if you're going to subdivide, it can be any group of people that shares a greater degree of consanguinity with each other than they do with others.

Why can't you compare people based on how closely related they are to each other?
post #1495 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

What "race" are those little folks you posted? Why do they look so different from, say, Kenyans?

They are ancestors the Bushmen.
post #1496 of 2656
I think setting up the discussion using the traditional paradigm of "race" is probably ill advised. True, this is how most data is aggregated, but as has been mentioned there's a great level of variation intra-racially (using the traditional breakdown). I refuse to think a short, wiry, swarthy dood with curly goat hair is the same "race" as I am in any meaningful fashion. So right there that makes me suspect of the white/black/Asian tripartite of aggregated data.

However, does this rule out IQ having a heritable component? Logically, it does not, and my hunch is that there is a component of IQ that is heritable. Per my above comments, I don't think that if there really is a heritable component, it breaks down along white/black/Asian lines. For instance, OECD data indicated people of Chinese, Japanese, and Korean lineage far outperform south-east Asian in aggregate.
post #1497 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre Secreto View Post

They are ancestors the Bushmen.

They're not bushmen, damn it, they're negritos. Southeast asian pygmies.

And why do they look different from Kenyans? 60,000 years of isolation from each other.
post #1498 of 2656
Negritos? Thought you were being racist by calling them that. I guess the Spics who discovered them were being insensitive when they called them "negritos."
post #1499 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Because they're negritos from halfway across the world?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Why? Race can refer to a family, a clan, a country, a continent, or the entire human race (if you like). But if you're going to subdivide, it can be any group of people that shares a greater degree of consanguinity with each other than they do with others.

Why can't you compare people based on how closely related they are to each other?

Well, that's the point about using "race" to describe trends. The bins are too big. Saying "blacks" describes everybody from Brazilians to Burundians to bushmen. That's a huge grouping of people, and there's no obvious reason why they'd share traits other than skin color.
post #1500 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post


Well, that's the point about using "race" to describe trends. The bins are too big. Saying "blacks" describes everybody from Brazilians to Burundians to bushmen. That's a huge grouping of people, and there's no obvious reason why they'd share traits other than skin color.

If you're just saying that the traditional definition of race is imperfect, you won't get argument from me. But so what?

As to the argument that subsaharan Africans wouldn't share traits with each other, how about 60,000 years of isolation from everyone else. How about not interbreeding with neanderthals? Not being subject to repeated population bottlenecks caused by the harsher environment--the tropical sunlight that makes them black also makes it warmer. No ice ages? Not interbreeding with neanderthals? Human influences -- farming, cities, disease, war? Culture and aesthetic preferences? Tropical diseases?

If anything it's surprising how similar we all are.
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