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Migrants, Immigrants, Refugees, and Aliens in Euro-Zone - Page 93

post #1381 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

I'm thinking of like the Hitler youth here. You know, government-funded, closely aligned with one political party, indoctrinates kids and then turns them loose to terrorize the population, so the party and the government can deny responsibility for what they do. And you'd compare them to American college students in 2015? C'mon. That's offensive.

Well the hitler youth could mean a couple of things. It could mean their version of the Boy Scouts or it could be the 12th SS division the hitlerjugend. One is a group of kids learning basic survival skills and another is literally a well trained military unit.
post #1382 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post

Idk mate, not so sure about that. Feminists can get people fired for disagreeing with them. T

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/11/europe/hunt-women-scientists/

tldr; Nobel prize winner fired(resigned) for his comment that he would prefer the labs to be single sex.

Whether the guy is an idiot ot not is not important here, but firing people over their views is an infringement on free speech. Is like firing someone for believing gay marriage should be legal/political views(insert any topic).

That's still not using the power of the state to restrict speech though, which is all "freedom of speech" usually refers to. There's no such thing as "freedom from consequences."
post #1383 of 2656
@wojt you have a right to walk around wearing a shirt that says Goldman Sachs robs the poor. If you work for Goldman Sachs and you walk in wearing that shirt they have the right to fire you. The first amendment is not extended to private institutions.
post #1384 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by moltoelegante View Post

Easily solved: don't be friends with such weak-minded fools.
You likely won't hear me say this often, but I agree.

If saying something at dinner would offend everyone, maybe either (1) you're eating with hypersensitive wimps; or (2) the joke you were thinking about making really is offensive and inappropriate, and not one you should be making at dinner.

And I'll just note that not every instance of people reacting negatively to something you say or do is a scary example of PC run amok. Sometimes it's a perfectly appropriate response to dickish behavior.
post #1385 of 2656
First, the woman in that video is Canadian...so we can figure she's on the right side of history now that Justin is PM.

So, all the free speech talk...

What I think some folks have a problem with is that it's mainly only people to the right of the political spectrum that lose jobs, etc. from voicing their opinions. When is the last time you heard someone stepping down from a position for making a donation to support gay marriage? A Nobel laureate lose his position for saying he wishes lab staff was 100% female? For saying false things in support of the idea that 99.9% of Muslims are not antithetical to Western society? For telling lies in favor of "diversity?"

I think if people that said stupid/untrue things on leftwing topics were held under the same microscope, suffered the same consequences for saying stupid things, folks would get that free speech doesn't mean there are not consequences. When only one side of the political spectrum suffers the majority of consequences it will seem to those folks as if their is some kind of de facto censorship.
post #1386 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

That's still not using the power of the state to restrict speech though, which is all "freedom of speech" usually refers to. There's no such thing as "freedom from consequences."
Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract View Post

@wojt you have a right to walk around wearing a shirt that says Goldman Sachs robs the poor. If you work for Goldman Sachs and you walk in wearing that shirt they have the right to fire you. The first amendment is not extended to private institutions.

Not saying it's illegal since as little as I know about US law I think it's not. I'm saying perhaps it should be- because it's retarded authoritarian shit. This can destroy or seriously damage person's career. If protected characteristics extend to stuff like religious beliefs etc, political characteristics should be included as well. Basically you can get fired for not supporting or supporting gay marriage (insert anything). And as Piob says it's mostly problem with far left SJWs.
post #1387 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

That's still not using the power of the state to restrict speech though, which is all "freedom of speech" usually refers to. There's no such thing as "freedom from consequences."

Stupid examples of Goldman Saks aside, not protecting someone's right to free speech is indeed restricting it. I cannot understand why it is so hard to grasp? If you can lose your job because there is no guarantee of freedom of speech in your country then it is your country that restricting your ability to be a human being. Outsourcing freedom of speech decisions to corporate HR is a sure way to breed generations of frightened slaves, wary of the consequences.
post #1388 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

First, the woman in that video is Canadian...so we can figure she's on the right side of history now that Justin is PM.

So, all the free speech talk...

What I think some folks have a problem with is that it's mainly only people to the right of the political spectrum that lose jobs, etc. from voicing their opinions. When is the last time you heard someone stepping down from a position for making a donation to support gay marriage? A Nobel laureate lose his position for saying he wishes lab staff was 100% female? For saying false things in support of the idea that 99.9% of Muslims are not antithetical to Western society? For telling lies in favor of "diversity?"

I think if people that said stupid/untrue things on leftwing topics were held under the same microscope, suffered the same consequences for saying stupid things, folks would get that free speech doesn't mean there are not consequences. When only one side of the political spectrum suffers the majority of consequences it will seem to those folks as if their is some kind of de facto censorship.

Well it is the left wings main weapon. What do you think their obsession with identity politics and calling dissenters racists, mysogonosts, bigots etc. The entire purpose is to change the direction of a debate and make you defend yourself.
post #1389 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract View Post

Well it is the left wings main weapon. What do you think their obsession with identity politics and calling dissenters racists, mysogonosts, bigots etc. The entire purpose is to change the direction of a debate and make you defend yourself.

You have exposed your clear racism in this thread already.
post #1390 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

You have exposed your clear racism in this thread already.

Well I fucking hate native Americans so there's that…
post #1391 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medwed View Post

Stupid examples of Goldman Saks aside, not protecting someone's right to free speech is indeed restricting it. I cannot understand why it is so hard to grasp? If you can lose your job because there is no guarantee of freedom of speech in your country then it is your country that restricting your ability to be a human being. Outsourcing freedom of speech decisions to corporate HR is a sure way to breed generations of frightened slaves, wary of the consequences.

Well guess what, I don't want to be forced to pay someone who represents my company and says things that offend my employees and hurt my brand.
post #1392 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post


Not saying it's illegal since as little as I know about US law I think it's not. I'm saying perhaps it should be- because it's retarded authoritarian shit. This can destroy or seriously damage person's career. If protected characteristics extend to stuff like religious beliefs etc, political characteristics should be included as well. Basically you can get fired for not supporting or supporting gay marriage (insert anything). And as Piob says it's mostly problem with far left SJWs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Medwed View Post

Stupid examples of Goldman Saks aside, not protecting someone's right to free speech is indeed restricting it. I cannot understand why it is so hard to grasp? If you can lose your job because there is no guarantee of freedom of speech in your country then it is your country that restricting your ability to be a human being. Outsourcing freedom of speech decisions to corporate HR is a sure way to breed generations of frightened slaves, wary of the consequences.

"Freedom of speech," even outside the US as a universal right, only applies to government censorship. It doesn't, and never has, applied to freedom from the consequences of your speech with private individuals or organizations.

How would that even work? You're proposing the government enforce complete neutrality of speech in the private sector, which is itself restricting freedom of association. It would be a nightmare.

The thing about freedom is that there are negative consequences sometimes. People being hurt from overreactions to speech is part of the package. But restricting freedom to avoid those overreactions is worse than simply allowing it to happen.
post #1393 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post


How would that even work? You're proposing the government enforce complete neutrality of speech in the private sector, which is itself restricting freedom of association. It would be a nightmare.

The thing about freedom is that there are negative consequences sometimes. People being hurt from overreactions to speech is part of the package. But restricting freedom to avoid those overreactions is worse than simply allowing it to happen.

Nobody is advocating that, as you can't fire someone over being openly Muslim you shouldn't be able to fire anyone for being Republican, feminist or anti-feminist.

as legal fix you could maybe add 'political views' to the list of already protected characteristics under existing law:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_discrimination_law_in_the_United_States
^Also site notes that in state of New York and Puerto Rico job discrimination on 'political activities/affiliation' is already protected under state law.
post #1394 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post

Nobody is advocating that, as you can't fire someone over being openly Muslim you shouldn't be able to fire anyone for being Republican, feminist or anti-feminist.

as legal fix you could maybe add 'political views' to the list of already protected characteristics under existing law:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_discrimination_law_in_the_United_States
^Also site notes that in state of New York and Puerto Rico job discrimination on 'political activities/affiliation' is already protected under state law.

So someone could join a Jewish organization, publicly come out as a Neo-Nazi, spend their free time lobbying for Neo-Nazi causes, and be protected?

That's just a huge can of worms.
post #1395 of 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post


So someone could join a Jewish organization, publicly come out as a Neo-Nazi, spend their free time lobbying for Neo-Nazi causes, and be protected?

That's just a huge can of worms.

a Muslim Brotherhood/Hamas member can do the same already and is protected by law, so why I don't see why a neonazi doesn't deserve same treatment rotflmao.gif

Also a neonazi store owner can't fire a clerk who turns out to be jew, or even a zionist jew so I don't see why it shouldn't work the other way around.
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