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Take all of the guns. All of them. - Page 90

post #1336 of 1722
So then you're saying maybe she did commit murder?
post #1337 of 1722
Interesting that it says occupied vehicle but doesn't specify the occupancy of the home.

The crux of the issue here is really that she rushed home and shot the kid. You can't claim you were in danger when you knowingly went looking for it.

Doesn't mean you were legally wrong in your state...but that gets my vote for morally wrong.
post #1338 of 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by otc View Post

Interesting that it says occupied vehicle but doesn't specify the occupancy of the home.

The crux of the issue here is really that she rushed home and shot the kid. You can't claim you were in danger when you knowingly went looking for it.

Doesn't mean you were legally wrong in your state...but that gets my vote for morally wrong.

Yeah, I completely disagree with her actions there. I just also disagree with the thought the cops would have handled the situation...as it's obvious they didn't (she beat them there?) and probably have not in the past. Not sure the answer here other than civil society has obviously broken down in many places in the US.
post #1339 of 1722
I think that kid saw her as an easy mark, and routinely used her home as a cash dispenser. Granny just had enough of that punk, and that was that. Who knows how many unwanted visits she received, and the kid's family, and Police did almost nothing about it.
post #1340 of 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre Secreto View Post

When I was young crackhead, I would routinely break into people's homes, and got guns pulled on me a couple of times. I ran like a motherfucker when I was confronted, but was never shot at. Not sure about a 13, or 14 year old being blasted for looking to steal some jewelry. Some people do change their bad habits.

This is an important point, however, I don't think that was likely in this teenager's case given the comments of his family. Again, civil society has let people down. How does the broader society cope with a sub-culture that thinks the kid was doing what's right and rational?
post #1341 of 1722
13 14 year olds are not all small children. You younger guys don't know what it is like being 50 instead of 40. Which one of you males know what it is like being a female? And how would you react if you had been raped? Did she know if it was one person or several? Did she walk in shooting? Or, did she try and talk some since into this brat? I have been around people who started crime young and the older they get the worse they get. Some criminals have killed tens of thousands of people. Where is law enforcement? Handing out speeding tickets to athletes.
post #1342 of 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

This is an important point, however, I don't think that was likely in this teenager's case given the comments of his family. Again, civil society has let people down. How does the broader society cope with a sub-culture that thinks the kid was doing what's right and rational?

That's a tough question. You could blame the parents for their upbringing, or lack of. Or the kid could legitimately have some mental issues (psychopath.) I guess it depends on the kid. Some kids steal to get attention from their parents, and other need crystal, or crack money. Yeah, what the kid did was wrong, but none of us know how much shit that woman had to deal with. I ain't gonna justify his behavior by saying he was just a "kid." For all I know that kid could of been a spawn of satan. I did a lot of fucked up shit as a kid, but I always knew it was wrong, and never glorified it. I don't know if that kid realized that too, and would of eventually cleaned up his act. Again. I have no idea what went on with those two, or the kid's mindset.
post #1343 of 1722
I think people have a pretty inflated idea of what the cops do. If the cops find the kid robbing your house, they will arrest him. Otherwise, good fucking luck. The police are mainly there to keep the chaos to a minimum. Otherwise it's up to you to protect your home and person.
post #1344 of 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

So then you're saying maybe she did commit murder?

That turns out not to be the whole statute. It has the burglary provision I expected. Let me be clear that I ain't no Florida lawyer and this ain't no Florida legal advice.
Quote:
776.012 Use or threatened use of force in defense of person.—
(1) A person is justified in using or threatening to use force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. A person who uses or threatens to use force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat before using or threatening to use such force.
(2) A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.

...
Quote:
776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776.html
post #1345 of 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchausen 
I think people have a pretty inflated idea of what the cops do
Including a lot of criminals.


The cops mostly exist to make people think breaking into houses is a bad idea. Raising the risk of getting caught from "none" to "some" is enough to discourage an awful lot of criminal acts. Simply existing and being around pulls the veneer of order and civilization over us, and it does a lot to prevent crime.


People who know how much "some" actually is, and how to lower it, are the kind of criminals who don't get caught.
post #1346 of 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchausen View Post

I think people have a pretty inflated idea of what the cops do. If the cops find the kid robbing your house, they will arrest him. Otherwise, good fucking luck. The police are mainly there to keep the chaos to a minimum. Otherwise it's up to you to protect your home and person.

And as the SCOTUS ruling I quoted up thread a bit shows even the old people in the black robes uphold the cops are not really there to protect the individual.
post #1347 of 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchausen View Post

I think people have a pretty inflated idea of what the cops do. If the cops find the kid robbing your house, they will arrest him. Otherwise, good fucking luck. The police are mainly there to keep the chaos to a minimum. Otherwise it's up to you to protect your home and person.

 

Yeah, I was robbed once.  Neighbors picked the kid out of a lineup - he was caught in another burglary.  They did nothing.  I also gave them the serial number of the PS3 the kid stole (he took it out of the box it was in with the serial number on it).  All the cops would have had to do is called Sony, and they could have tracked it down when it went online.  Still, they couldn't be bothered to do that.

post #1348 of 1722
Quote:
776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

Wait, so I am allowed to shoot kids playing with makeshift fireworks in the woods?

Also, what is aggravated stalking and how can I kill someone for doing it.
Sounds like in florida, that includes cyberstalking (and it becomes aggravated if it is repeated and willful or if it targets a <16 year old). So if I relentlessly accuse a 15 year old on Xbox live of having a small penis and inform him of the times I have spent with his mother...somebody is allowed to kill me?
post #1349 of 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by otc View Post


Wait, so I am allowed to shoot kids playing with makeshift fireworks in the woods?

Also, what is aggravated stalking and how can I kill someone for doing it.
Sounds like in florida, that includes cyberstalking (and it becomes aggravated if it is repeated and willful or if it targets a <16 year old). So if I relentlessly accuse a 15 year old on Xbox live of having a small penis and inform him of the times I have spent with his mother...somebody is allowed to kill me?


Who needs the Wild West when there's Florida?

post #1350 of 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by otc View Post

Wait, so I am allowed to shoot kids playing with makeshift fireworks in the woods?

I'm sure that's the name of an offense which is defined in such a way as to exclude kids with fireworks.
Quote:
Also, what is aggravated stalking and how can I kill someone for doing it.
Sounds like in florida, that includes cyberstalking (and it becomes aggravated if it is repeated and willful or if it targets a <16 year old). So if I relentlessly accuse a 15 year old on Xbox live of having a small penis and inform him of the times I have spent with his mother...somebody is allowed to kill me?

That's cute, but very misleading. You can only use deadly force if it's reasonably necessary to prevent the imminent commission of one of those crimes.

It's hard to imagine how that's possible for that to happen in real life with aggravated cyberstalking.
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