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Take all of the guns. All of them. - Page 72

post #1066 of 1719
It somehow feels worse for me knowing the vast majority of those car deaths were unintentional. Imagine if folks were trying?
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

what if you normalized by % of intended use to bring harm upon others , that lady in vegas being latest example of vehicular attack

(how does that even work with drugs ? throw heroine into someone's face ? i guess scopolamine would count but that's columbia)
post #1067 of 1719
One day the whole argument of comparing gun related death statistics to motor vehicle will go out the window when self driving cars start to become the norm.
post #1068 of 1719
i have no qualms about tackling the automobile issue (and perhaps by extension the dire state of public transit in most places) but i'm curious why it's brought up in the context of gun control because it seems a completely different and unrelated issue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr Mouse View Post

One day the whole argument of comparing gun related death statistics to motor vehicle will go out the window when self driving cars start to become the norm.

how will it go away ? it will just add more confounding statistics like a car deciding to kill the driver to safe the lives of pedestrians or whatever insane scenarios are being perpetuated now
post #1069 of 1719
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

how will it go away ? it will just add more confounding statistics like a car deciding to kill the driver to safe the lives of pedestrians or whatever insane scenarios are being perpetuated now


Mistakes and software errors will always happen, but the decrease in overall motor vehicle fatalities will be huge. Traffic will be worlds better as will the overall energy savings due to efficiency.
post #1070 of 1719
The gun / car comparison is helpful. It illustrates the flawed reasoning of "there outta be a law."

There is a law.
post #1071 of 1719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr Mouse View Post

Mistakes and software errors will always happen, but the decrease in overall motor vehicle fatalities will be huge. Traffic will be worlds better as will the overall energy savings due to efficiency.

Everyone should have a pre-computer offroad vehicle to escape, when the silicon valley tyrants finally execute Order 66.
post #1072 of 1719
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

It's a cute argument that because prohibition doesn't work for one thing it doesn't work for anything.

How many massacres has Australia had since they got rid of guns? 

Let's just get rid of all laws because people still commit crimes. Clearly they are useless. 

I suspect if we got rid of all the drugs, there would be no more drug overdoses.

And I like how you phrased it as "massacres" and not murders, thus dodging an analysis of the effect of the ban on the crime rate. Clumsy, but still pretty cute. You're showing some signs of life, I like it.
post #1073 of 1719
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

i have no qualms about tackling the automobile issue (and perhaps by extension the dire state of public transit in most places) but i'm curious why it's brought up in the context of gun control because it seems a completely different and unrelated issue
how will it go away ? it will just add more confounding statistics like a car deciding to kill the driver to safe the lives of pedestrians or whatever insane scenarios are being perpetuated now

For the same reason gun advocates want to act like Sandy Hook is representative of gun crime and that it's "easy access" to firearms that causes things like Sandy Hook. The tactic is one I refer to as, "Bullshit baffles brains."
post #1074 of 1719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post

The gun / car comparison is helpful. It illustrates the flawed reasoning of "there outta be a law."

There is a law.

Well the gun stats are skewed as well. They include suicide by firearm which is the highest amount of deaths from firearms. I have a few problem with that being part of the statistic. 1. It assumes the gun is more responsible than mental health and 2. I personally believe if you want to end your life you should have that right.
post #1075 of 1719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

For the same reason gun regulation advocates want to act like Sandy Hook is representative of gun crime and that it's "easy access" to firearms that causes things like Sandy Hook. The tactic is one I refer to as, "Bullshit baffles brains."

In any case, I don't see the link between this and automobile statistics. This is just an extreme scenario relating to gun violence in general , while cars...well I'm still not clear why they're brought up ? Why not mosquitos ?

Of course there are a myriad of other sources of deaths, and anyone intending to do harm can achieve that twisted goal by plenty of other method (Boston Marathon, guns were not the primary means there) but there is a more general trend of intentional violence associated with guns that, as far as I know, isn't seen with other means. Unless there is an underreporting of bombs or stabbings or vehicular homicides occurring with alarming frequency in the US. None of this means that some worthless legislation will solve the problem, it's an endemic issue because 1) the supply of both arms and ammunitions won't disappear overnight so a simple ban will just cause a push toward an illegal market 2) an obsession with violence in general in society

tl;dnr : I don't have a solution, but I still don't understand how cars came up

foo.gif
Edited by the shah - 12/23/15 at 12:53pm
post #1076 of 1719
Yup, I had meant to say control advocates.
post #1077 of 1719

at what point does this thread make its way back to the first post? i have this feeling i've read all this before... and yet i keep checking in!

post #1078 of 1719
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

In any case, I don't see the link between this and automobile statistics. This is just an extreme scenario relating to gun violence in general , while cars...well I'm still not clear why they're brought up ? Why not mosquitos ?

Of course there are a myriad of other sources of deaths, and anyone intending to do harm can achieve that twisted goal by plenty of other method (Boston Marathon, guns were not the primary means there) but there is a more general trend of intentional violence associated with guns that, as far as I know, isn't seen with other means. Unless there is an underreporting of bombs or stabbings or vehicular homicides occurring with alarming frequency in the US. None of this means that some worthless legislation will solve the problem, it's an endemic issue because 1) the supply of both arms and ammunitions won't disappear overnight so a simple ban will just cause a push toward an illegal market 2) an obsession with violence in general in society

tl;dnr : I don't have a solution, but I still don't understand how cars came up

foo.gif

I think cars come up because you look at a raw death number and people are outraged by guns but compared to other death statistics it's insignificant.
post #1079 of 1719
Anybody who can't see the categorical differences between guns and cars or guns and mosquitos is probably not up for an honest debate
post #1080 of 1719
Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract View Post

I think cars come up because you look at a raw death number and people are outraged by guns but compared to other death statistics it's insignificant.

So why not mosquitos? They cause a million deaths a year, one child every 30 seconds.
Extreme anti-biotic resistance is on the rise, meaning malaria (and other infections, TB is a big one) will simply be less and less curable.

This is still comparing two very different things and it still doesn't address my earlier point -- normalize by intent to do harm to others, and maybe by the number of folks who have guns and how often they use them vs cars and how often they're used.

In any case, it's not an equivalence issue , that because don't get mad about one thing your concerns regarding something else are invalid. It's a flawed and reductive way of thinking that, carried out to its logical conclusion, is hopeless.
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