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Engineered Garments FW 15 - Page 64

post #946 of 1015

forgive me, as i'm not big in the world of online forums, but isn't this cat what is known as a "troll?" a member since 2009 with 9 posts (most, if not all, coming today, on this thread?). so he isn't happy with "current EG?" Great - I like it, you like it, the other guys here like it. Nothing wrong with being critical of the brand here and there, but popping up simply to go on inane rants about polyamide content and "errant threads?" what's his intent? is this therapy of some sorts? shouting at a wall? :nest:

post #947 of 1015
You might be right....after years of wearing EG and over 40 garments, I don't understand EG. That must be it! shog[1].gif

Well-sewn clothing ... does not entail that it has to be 'performance clothing. RRL is an overpriced fashion label for handbags or so I thought lol. What have they got in common with proper clothes makers happy.gif I'm afraid entertainment brands like RRL fall in the category of Tommy Hilfiger or Burberry for me: marketing forces are more important than the actual calibre of the items they produce.

I don't see EG as 'performance clothing', anymore than other contemporary clothes brands. However if 'engineered' is an oxymoron for Daiji's own description, and there are loose flaws and threads over a significant number of the garments on sale from EG, arguing for a post-modern philosophy to explain the holes in his thinking is a rather superficial attempt at dressing up the lack of rigor in design philosophy as 'fashion'.

Visually, EG clothing are very appealing. Aesthetically, they are mostly hit and somes miss for me, due to the lack of detailed consideration into the selection of fabrics, such as other Italian and European designers. Conceptually, they miss something more than they hit: 'engineering' is a metaphor approximation, not an actual conception, whereby engineering is a precision task; not some half-baked idea on the back of a cigarette packet marketed as a design 'philosophy' of the absurd, which seeks to unify 'natural' with 'deconstruction' and 'post-modern'. Well this might have been trendy in 1970, but we're way past that. Everything marketed before us is trendily bandied around as 'post-modern and deconstructionist': we prefer 'norm-core' and dressing 'down' rather than 'up'; we pay more to look like Joe Average through ever increasingly expensive labels aimed at deconstructioning the calibre of hard work and quality fabrics, inverting the order of natural quality, by pursuing Polyamide Perfection. Or do we?

The evidence has to be in what their clothing reveals: not what they fail to deliver in their mission statement. If I wanted perfectly constructed garments, I would go for hand made garments: a robotic mass manufactured garment with every stitch flawlessly in place, is not my idea of perfection. Hand-made, is one of those principles which drives towards my idea of perfection. Having stitches fall out; or seams bust, is just downright shoddy manufacturing.

The distinction, between purposefully quality hand-made and shoddily put together by a pattern-maker contractor is a useful one. I don't know de facto if there is a difference. However spending as much as I do on EG quietly, I've finally popped a clothier's coronary when seeing more more improper hanging thread is the last straw (but not the last thread! biggrin.gif)
post #948 of 1015
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue peter View Post

forgive me, as i'm not big in the world of online forums, but isn't this cat what is known as a "troll?" a member since 2009 with 9 posts (most, if not all, coming today, on this thread?). so he isn't happy with "current EG?" Great - I like it, you like it, the other guys here like it. Nothing wrong with being critical of the brand here and there, but popping up simply to go on inane rants about polyamide content and "errant threads?" what's his intent? is this therapy of some sorts? shouting at a wall? nest.gif

Wow. I don't post for years, because I read. I don't have a lot to say about clothes: I have my life to get on.

I have always liked EG (I confess, a bit less now since I started noticing the loose threads - from EG garments - not the forum), however I'm not brainless nor mindlessly in love with a brand for a brands' name sake.

I've already given an example of one of my own ex-favourite brands, going downhill over years. If I've stated anything incorrect about my experience about EG Bluepeter, you're welcome to correct me. I'm not interested in what you think of my intent. Try and stick to EG garments quality and products please.
post #949 of 1015
Yes I agree that FW16 has a lot of potential and I can't wait to see some of the pieces in person!

My biggest regret was not buying the faux-fur duffle when I was in NYC earlier this year. It really was an incredible piece and fit right in with the playful aspect of the brand I enjoy. Unfortunately, it would have been a huge pain in the ass to carry as it was pretty warm and I had no space to carry anything shog[1].gif

Anyone been able to stop down at nepenthes to check out the fabrics this season? Nothing really new or novel seemed to pop out in the lookbook in terms of design, but I'd be curious to hear about what someone thinks of say the shirting and pants fabrics (what interested them when they saw it, felt it, etc)
post #950 of 1015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortenmouton View Post

You might be right....after years of wearing EG and over 40 garments, I don't understand EG. That must be it! shog[1].gif

Well-sewn clothing ... does not entail that it has to be 'performance clothing. RRL is an overpriced fashion label for handbags or so I thought lol. What have they got in common with proper clothes makers happy.gif I'm afraid entertainment brands like RRL fall in the category of Tommy Hilfiger or Burberry for me: marketing forces are more important than the actual calibre of the items they produce.

I don't see EG as 'performance clothing', anymore than other contemporary clothes brands. However if 'engineered' is an oxymoron for Daiji's own description, and there are loose flaws and threads over a significant number of the garments on sale from EG, arguing for a post-modern philosophy to explain the holes in his thinking is a rather superficial attempt at dressing up the lack of rigor in design philosophy as 'fashion'.

Visually, EG clothing are very appealing. Aesthetically, they are mostly hit and somes miss for me, due to the lack of detailed consideration into the selection of fabrics, such as other Italian and European designers. Conceptually, they miss something more than they hit: 'engineering' is a metaphor approximation, not an actual conception, whereby engineering is a precision task; not some half-baked idea on the back of a cigarette packet marketed as a design 'philosophy' of the absurd, which seeks to unify 'natural' with 'deconstruction' and 'post-modern'. Well this might have been trendy in 1970, but we're way past that. Everything marketed before us is trendily bandied around as 'post-modern and deconstructionist': we prefer 'norm-core' and dressing 'down' rather than 'up'; we pay more to look like Joe Average through ever increasingly expensive labels aimed at deconstructioning the calibre of hard work and quality fabrics, inverting the order of natural quality, by pursuing Polyamide Perfection. Or do we?

The evidence has to be in what their clothing reveals: not what they fail to deliver in their mission statement. If I wanted perfectly constructed garments, I would go for hand made garments: a robotic mass manufactured garment with every stitch flawlessly in place, is not my idea of perfection. Hand-made, is one of those principles which drives towards my idea of perfection. Having stitches fall out; or seams bust, is just downright shoddy manufacturing.

The distinction, between purposefully quality hand-made and shoddily put together by a pattern-maker contractor is a useful one. I don't know de facto if there is a difference. However spending as much as I do on EG quietly, I've finally popped a clothier's coronary when seeing more more improper hanging thread is the last straw (but not the last thread! biggrin.gif)

You're putting way too much effort into criticizing EG. There's something negative to be said about any clothing brand, but what's the point. Buy what you like and meets your expectations and don't buy the rest.

post #951 of 1015
STFU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortenmouton View Post

You might be right....after years of wearing EG and over 40 garments, I don't understand EG. That must be it! shog[1].gif

Well-sewn clothing ... does not entail that it has to be 'performance clothing. RRL is an overpriced fashion label for handbags or so I thought lol. What have they got in common with proper clothes makers happy.gif I'm afraid entertainment brands like RRL fall in the category of Tommy Hilfiger or Burberry for me: marketing forces are more important than the actual calibre of the items they produce.

I don't see EG as 'performance clothing', anymore than other contemporary clothes brands. However if 'engineered' is an oxymoron for Daiji's own description, and there are loose flaws and threads over a significant number of the garments on sale from EG, arguing for a post-modern philosophy to explain the holes in his thinking is a rather superficial attempt at dressing up the lack of rigor in design philosophy as 'fashion'.

Visually, EG clothing are very appealing. Aesthetically, they are mostly hit and somes miss for me, due to the lack of detailed consideration into the selection of fabrics, such as other Italian and European designers. Conceptually, they miss something more than they hit: 'engineering' is a metaphor approximation, not an actual conception, whereby engineering is a precision task; not some half-baked idea on the back of a cigarette packet marketed as a design 'philosophy' of the absurd, which seeks to unify 'natural' with 'deconstruction' and 'post-modern'. Well this might have been trendy in 1970, but we're way past that. Everything marketed before us is trendily bandied around as 'post-modern and deconstructionist': we prefer 'norm-core' and dressing 'down' rather than 'up'; we pay more to look like Joe Average through ever increasingly expensive labels aimed at deconstructioning the calibre of hard work and quality fabrics, inverting the order of natural quality, by pursuing Polyamide Perfection. Or do we?

The evidence has to be in what their clothing reveals: not what they fail to deliver in their mission statement. If I wanted perfectly constructed garments, I would go for hand made garments: a robotic mass manufactured garment with every stitch flawlessly in place, is not my idea of perfection. Hand-made, is one of those principles which drives towards my idea of perfection. Having stitches fall out; or seams bust, is just downright shoddy manufacturing.

The distinction, between purposefully quality hand-made and shoddily put together by a pattern-maker contractor is a useful one. I don't know de facto if there is a difference. However spending as much as I do on EG quietly, I've finally popped a clothier's coronary when seeing more more improper hanging thread is the last straw (but not the last thread! biggrin.gif)
post #952 of 1015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortenmouton View Post

You might be right....after years of wearing EG and over 40 garments, I don't understand EG. That must be it! shog[1].gif

Well-sewn clothing ... does not entail that it has to be 'performance clothing. RRL is an overpriced fashion label for handbags or so I thought lol. What have they got in common with proper clothes makers happy.gif I'm afraid entertainment brands like RRL fall in the category of Tommy Hilfiger or Burberry for me: marketing forces are more important than the actual calibre of the items they produce.

I don't see EG as 'performance clothing', anymore than other contemporary clothes brands. However if 'engineered' is an oxymoron for Daiji's own description, and there are loose flaws and threads over a significant number of the garments on sale from EG, arguing for a post-modern philosophy to explain the holes in his thinking is a rather superficial attempt at dressing up the lack of rigor in design philosophy as 'fashion'.

Visually, EG clothing are very appealing. Aesthetically, they are mostly hit and somes miss for me, due to the lack of detailed consideration into the selection of fabrics, such as other Italian and European designers. Conceptually, they miss something more than they hit: 'engineering' is a metaphor approximation, not an actual conception, whereby engineering is a precision task; not some half-baked idea on the back of a cigarette packet marketed as a design 'philosophy' of the absurd, which seeks to unify 'natural' with 'deconstruction' and 'post-modern'. Well this might have been trendy in 1970, but we're way past that. Everything marketed before us is trendily bandied around as 'post-modern and deconstructionist': we prefer 'norm-core' and dressing 'down' rather than 'up'; we pay more to look like Joe Average through ever increasingly expensive labels aimed at deconstructioning the calibre of hard work and quality fabrics, inverting the order of natural quality, by pursuing Polyamide Perfection. Or do we?

The evidence has to be in what their clothing reveals: not what they fail to deliver in their mission statement. If I wanted perfectly constructed garments, I would go for hand made garments: a robotic mass manufactured garment with every stitch flawlessly in place, is not my idea of perfection. Hand-made, is one of those principles which drives towards my idea of perfection. Having stitches fall out; or seams bust, is just downright shoddy manufacturing.

The distinction, between purposefully quality hand-made and shoddily put together by a pattern-maker contractor is a useful one. I don't know de facto if there is a difference. However spending as much as I do on EG quietly, I've finally popped a clothier's coronary when seeing more more improper hanging thread is the last straw (but not the last thread! biggrin.gif)

If we are talking about experience with the brand, I probably have more than most here.  I am friends with Gary Drinkwater, a long time friend of Daiki's, was drawn to the brand at his store the very first season it was available outside of Japan (2004), have Engineered Garments clothing from as far back as that, and Styleforum, through me, did one of the first non-maker collaborations with Daiki (we did 2 colors of the quick release belts that they did with an English beltmaker,  iirc in 2007).  I've also visited the showroom many times, talked to Daiki many times, to his design assistants, and so on.  I don't own 40 Engineered Garments pieces, probably dozens over the years.  Don't really keep track.

 

Read that quote again.  It speaks to what Daiki found appealing about American made clothing.  The clothing he is talking about is not handmade, and it is not machine made using the best technology available today.   It is not perfectly constructed, either in the sense of robotic perfection.  Nor is it perfect in the sense of an artisanal, hand made, item.  It is the attraction of old technology that was primarily used to make inexpensive work and sports garments.  This is not unlike the technology that makes Japanese denim attractive.  And yes, a lot of what makes Japanese raw denim attractive are its technical flaws.  For example, the use of cotton thread is functionally inferior to the use of poly core thread. The polycore keeps the thread strong, but the cotton surface keeps the thread from being overly abrasive and stressful on the softer cotton of the jeans.  And yet, many of the Japanese repro brands continue to use pure cotton thread.  It's not because it is more cost effective.  It's because outmoded technology has an appeal of its own that is sometimes, but not always, rooted in nostalgia.  Many other times, it's fascinating in the same way that, say, a steam locomotive is fascinating.  Something in a time out of our time.  Somewhat alien, but at the same time, very familiar.

 

As for the make quality of the garments, I've not noticed any real change over the years.  I have a field jacket made out of a hopsack, from FW03, and it has stresspoints all oer that make no sense.  It also fits a bit odd not by design, but because it's hard to grade sizing if you are doing any post-make treatments.  On one of the first engineer jackets ever, the buttons have all fallen off at one point or another.  Over the years, the fit became tighter, and the fabrics more lightweight (I can show you an olive green Engineer jacket from 2006 that weighs a metric ton), and the silhouettes did change with the changing times as well, but overall, it's a brand that has kept it's core identity.

post #953 of 1015
Thread Starter 
Bla, Bla, Bla! I told myself, be good, don't fight and what's the use. Quite frankly, you are the perfect definition of "A Troll". Who knows, it's a talent I guess.
You've obviously come here to pick a fight, get the hair on some to rise and maybe even discourage the newbies here who have just reached their wardrobe heaven, so to speak.
Over 40 pieces and a few dangling threads, come on man. Can't you lend some of your "profound" knowledge on us instead of knit picking about the thread hanging from your crotch. Have you ever heard of nose scissors. That's what I tend to use when I'm getting dressed and see that crotch thread has grown a bit. Then I check my nostrils.
Yes, as LA Guy stated, I've been with the collection for a while and I have seen the wax and wane of it. All collections have a tidal swing and you're in it or you're not. It seems to me you're not, so either deal with Daiki's nuances, because he does own that degree of respect or take your fight directly to them. You'll find that they will humbly bend over backwards to make you happy but nothing makes you happy, does it mate! Bye Bye!
post #954 of 1015

That was amazing, Gary.

post #955 of 1015
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

If we are talking about experience with the brand, I probably have more than most here.  I am friends with Gary Drinkwater, a long time friend of Daiki's, was drawn to the brand at his store the very first season it was available outside of Japan (2004), have Engineered Garments clothing from as far back as that, and Styleforum, through me, did one of the first non-maker collaborations with Daiki (we did 2 colors of the quick release belts that they did with an English beltmaker,  iirc in 2007).  I've also visited the showroom many times, talked to Daiki many times, to his design assistants, and so on.  I don't own 40 Engineered Garments pieces, probably dozens over the years.  Don't really keep track.

Read that quote again.  It speaks to what Daiki found appealing about American made clothing.  The clothing he is talking about is not handmade, and it is not machine made using the best technology available today.   It is not perfectly constructed, either in the sense of robotic perfection.  Nor is it perfect in the sense of an artisanal, hand made, item.  It is the attraction of old technology that was primarily used to make inexpensive work and sports garments.  This is not unlike the technology that makes Japanese denim attractive.  And yes, a lot of what makes Japanese raw denim attractive are its technical flaws.  For example, the use of cotton thread is functionally inferior to the use of poly core thread. The polycore keeps the thread strong, but the cotton surface keeps the thread from being overly abrasive and stressful on the softer cotton of the jeans.  And yet, many of the Japanese repro brands continue to use pure cotton thread.  It's not because it is more cost effective.  It's because outmoded technology has an appeal of its own that is sometimes, but not always, rooted in nostalgia.  Many other times, it's fascinating in the same way that, say, a steam locomotive is fascinating.  Something in a time out of our time.  Somewhat alien, but at the same time, very familiar.

As for the make quality of the garments, I've not noticed any real change over the years.  I have a field jacket made out of a hopsack, from FW03, and it has stresspoints all oer that make no sense.  It also fits a bit odd not by design, but because it's hard to grade sizing if you are doing any post-make treatments.  On one of the first engineer jackets ever, the buttons have all fallen off at one point or another.  Over the years, the fit became tighter, and the fabrics more lightweight (I can show you an olive green Engineer jacket from 2006 that weighs a metric ton), and the silhouettes did change with the changing times as well, but overall, it's a brand that has kept it's core identity.

Thanks for sharing your experience LA Guy. It's a refreshing change from the protesting squawks of other fundamentalist EG fanboys who perceive any criticism as an assault on their sacred cow who are probably hypocrites who only ever buy one or two EG garments when it's on sale and then take fake offence on their own behalf.

What you've said helps make sense: cotton thread is my preference for garments; this fits with the natural philosophy of EG garments. Old hand looms and hand operated 1970s' sewing machines are all great: this all fits with the appeal of EG; steam locomotives are no problem with this philosophy, neither is hopsack (fantastic!) and poplin. This is what attracted me to EG years ago too; as well as Orslow, and more recently, Arpenteur and traditional makers of clothing, who reproduce modern day clothes with the same pattern cuts and weights as the exhtant originals (and neither Orslow nor the younger artisanal Arpenteur, at the same price point as EG, offer poorly finished threading).

Everything you've said fits with the identity of EG as I've experienced it - the high points of EG that is None of this presents any problem:

It's that niggling creep of polyamide plastic blends in more and more EG clothing which I've noticed anecdotally (and actively avoid).

Thanks for your insights.
post #956 of 1015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortenmouton View Post


Thanks for sharing your experience LA Guy. It's a refreshing change from the protesting squawks of other fundamentalist EG fanboys who perceive any criticism as an assault on their sacred cow who are probably hypocrites who only ever buy one or two EG garments when it's on sale and then take fake offence on their own behalf.

What you've said helps make sense: cotton thread is my preference for garments; this fits with the natural philosophy of EG garments. Old hand looms and hand operated 1970s' sewing machines are all great: this all fits with the appeal of EG; steam locomotives are no problem with this philosophy, neither is hopsack (fantastic!) and poplin. This is what attracted me to EG years ago too; as well as Orslow, and more recently, Arpenteur and traditional makers of clothing, who reproduce modern day clothes with the same pattern cuts and weights as the exhtant originals (and neither Orslow nor the younger artisanal Arpenteur, at the same price point as EG, offer poorly finished threading).

Everything you've said fits with the identity of EG as I've experienced it - the high points of EG that is None of this presents any problem:

It's that niggling creep of polyamide plastic blends in more and more EG clothing which I've noticed anecdotally (and actively avoid).

Thanks for your insights.

A lot of the textiles that we see today would not be possible without the use of synthetics.  It can become exceeding hard to get a material that is strong, lightweight, and has a particular hand, whether that be extremely dry, or extremely soft and supple, without use of synthetics.  I have some old, 24 ounce tweeds, and 32 ounce meltons.  I enjoy those fabrics, but not everyone does, and frankly, unless you are used to wearing such heavy cloth, they are not for most wearers.  And frankly, it's hard to layer 24 ounce fabrics unless you live in Nunavut.  

 

I think that it would be a bit misleading to call Engineered Garments a "heritage" brand, insofar as many of their garments would not be necessarily be recognizable to the men who wore the inspiration garments.  It is a modern brand with a lot of experimentation, but with roots deep inside Americana.  And I think that that justaposition of modern and historical is what has kept Engineered Garments relevant while so many other brands have fallen by the wayside. or just risen and fallen.

post #957 of 1015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drinkwaters View Post

Bla, Bla, Bla! I told myself, be good, don't fight and what's the use. Quite frankly, you are the perfect definition of "A Troll". Who knows, it's a talent I guess.
You've obviously come here to pick a fight, get the hair on some to rise and maybe even discourage the newbies here who have just reached their wardrobe heaven, so to speak.
Over 40 pieces and a few dangling threads, come on man. Can't you lend some of your "profound" knowledge on us instead of knit picking about the thread hanging from your crotch. Have you ever heard of nose scissors. That's what I tend to use when I'm getting dressed and see that crotch thread has grown a bit. Then I check my nostrils.
Yes, as LA Guy stated, I've been with the collection for a while and I have seen the wax and wane of it. All collections have a tidal swing and you're in it or you're not. It seems to me you're not, so either deal with Daiki's nuances, because he does own that degree of respect or take your fight directly to them. You'll find that they will humbly bend over backwards to make you happy but nothing makes you happy, does it mate! Bye Bye!

Every time you post I'm reminded of what a turd you are.
post #958 of 1015
I can't say I've noticed anymore odd thread ends on EG than any other brand, and never had any that affect the structural integrity of the jacket. I've had them on most Nigel Cabourn pieces, and just snipped them with nail scissors. EG's construction quality has always seemed pretty much in line with other brands at a similar price point with nice details such as the split ring buttons.
post #959 of 1015
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManofKent View Post

I can't say I've noticed anymore odd thread ends on EG than any other brand, and never had any that affect the structural integrity of the jacket. I've had them on most Nigel Cabourn pieces, and just snipped them with nail scissors. EG's construction quality has always seemed pretty much in line with other brands at a similar price point with nice details such as the split ring buttons.

They are made using old workwear construction, as far as I can tell.  There is the occasional loose thread, and yes, the buttons are not attached by hand, except when they fall off and you reattach them.  However, at least for me, the slight wonkiness is also part of the charm.  

 

I also like remarkable materials and workmanship - I still keep a couple of Jil Sander circa the first season moleskin shirt jackets with french seams throughout just because they are so precisely done.  However, that is not why I go to Engineered Garments.

post #960 of 1015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortenmouton View Post

It's that niggling creep of polyamide plastic blends in more and more EG clothing which I've noticed anecdotally (and actively avoid).

 

I am wearing the AW15 tweed Bedford today. It's 85% wool and 15% nylon. I googled (because I'm bad at science), and the internet tells me that nylon is a polyamide. I own a number of real tweed jackets, and they are great for their purpose, which, for me, is with a tie for more dressy occasions. This plastic-blend Bedford is more casual, though. I flipped-up the collar and buttoned-up the top buttons to deal with the wind and cold today. The fabric is noticeably softer than my real tweed jackets and wasn't scratching my neck. I liked that. The blended fabric worked for the more casual nature of this jacket. The 100% wool works for other jackets, and I avoid blends for those. 

 

If you detest blends, avoid them. I don't think it's a sign of decreasing quality, though. EG fabrics sometimes may serve different purposes than fabrics from other makers.


Edited by zalb916 - 2/5/16 at 9:30am
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