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dressing up, when did it all go wrong? - Page 2

post #16 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by axlpendergast View Post
what is wrong with jeans and t-shirt? or sweat pants that have a hole or three after years of owning them? you wouldn't drive a BMW to go off-roading and you wouldn't drive a KIA expecting the maitre'd to be wowed in an upscale resteraunt.

as for people that really try to go for the homeless man look that's beyond me

this man speaks the truth.
post #17 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by flylot74 View Post
People's behavior have changed just a their dress. Loud, boorish, offensive self absorbed tools who talk too loud on their cells while dining. I could go on, but it will just give me a pain. There are no ladies and gentlemen anymore, just narcissistic low brows who behave badly and dress worse than lawn care workers.
O tempora, o mores! My friend, outside of your cellphone reference I have read the exact same lament being expressed during the bronze age. Why manners have been sliding so long pretty soon they'll be the worst they've ever been...again.
post #18 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by flylot74 View Post
Standards have eroded: education, behavior, sartorial, you name it. It's a slippery slope. Quite frankly, I will set the standards in my world. I will warn you, they are high....

Charles Dickens agrees with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Dickens
I do reluctantly believe that the English people are habitually consenting parties to the miserable imbecility into which we have fallen, and never will help themselves out of it. Who is to do it, if anybody is, God knows.
post #19 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by flylot74 View Post
It is only antiquated when people accept dress codes as such. I don't see dressing well as an antiquated standard. I see it as good grooming and taste.

"often times jeans and a T-shirt is far more appropriate to the activity."

Yes, when one is playing softball or baseball a t-shirt and baseball cap is certainly acceptable and functional. However, when a 30 or 40 something wears jeans, t-shirt, running shoes and a ball cap to a restaurant its "Hey! Beaver! You forgot your glove!" Kryse sake, grow up! Your not 12 anymore!

Children should dress with play in mind unless they are attending a funeral or church or dining out. Adults should dress appropriately as well. "Ditch the cargo pants and flip-flops, Bozo, you're on a date with a lady who is dressed to the nines!"

No, it is distressing to see such slovenly attire on so many people in the U.S. The richest country in the world and we dress like refugees from Rwanda. It's not about dress, it is about behavior. People have no respect anymore for others. They dress improperly and claim it comfortable. If a tie and shirt are not comfortable, guess what? They DON'T FIT!

People's behavior have changed just a their dress. Loud, boorish, offensive self absorbed tools who talk too loud on their cells while dining. I could go on, but it will just give me a pain. There are no ladies and gentlemen anymore, just narcissistic low brows who behave badly and dress worse than lawn care workers.

Standards have eroded: education, behavior, sartorial, you name it. It's a slippery slope. Quite frankly, I will set the standards in my world. I will warn you, they are high....

I agree there are times when people are dressed inappropriately based on the classic (also your) standard. And I like to see men in suits when it's appropriate. But I'm personally more concerned about people dressing poorly in terms of style than in terms of the standard of formality established long ago by mostly northeastern affluent society. The looks sported over in streetwear (albeit by a younger crowd) are far more pleasing to my eye than a tent-like dress shirt, too-long trousers, and the much-maligned square-toed KC monstrosities. But taking offense to either is missing the point, IMO.

T-shirts and jeans are acceptable in more and more places, and perceiving this as a lack of respect is merely a case of projecting your own norms onto others. You may feel as if it's ungentlemanly to wear jeans to a nice restaurant, but it's unlikely that the person wearing them feels that way, and he likely thinks your ideas about clothing are on the stuffy side. I just think it's unnecessarily exhausting to wax poetic about the glory days gone by when farmers wore suits. Times have changed, they've changed before, and each time at least some of the older generation expresses it's outrage. It's not so different than whining about "kids today!" and "that darned rap music!". My generation is far more forgiving of cell-phone use than I imagine yours is (guessing at your age), and the next one will likely be more still. The context of our culture and society has changed, and the standard of attire and interaction with it. What was offensive 50 years ago may not be today, and to perceive some insult based on poor standard of dress is often simply cultural intolerance.
post #20 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by flylot74 View Post
"often times jeans and a T-shirt is far more appropriate to the activity."

Yes, when one is playing softball or baseball a t-shirt and baseball cap is certainly acceptable and functional. However, when a 30 or 40 something wears jeans, t-shirt, running shoes and a ball cap to a restaurant its "Hey! Beaver! You forgot your glove!" Kryse sake, grow up! Your not 12 anymore!
I don't know about you, but I prefer not to play ball in jeans. They can rip. Just ask some folks over in SW&D, and they'll confirm this.

Quote:
People have no respect anymore for others. They dress improperly and claim it comfortable. If a tie and shirt are not comfortable, guess what? They DON'T FIT!
I think the reason most people will claim dressing in jeans and t-shirts to be comfortable is because it is. I will say, however, that I am as comfortable in my work clothes as I am in my casual outfits. But several of my peers don't feel the way I do primarily because they feel that the outfit is too "stuffy" and uptight. They associate the corporate culture and attitude with the clothes, and therefore, when they are not at work, they choose to wear clothes that reflect their mood. They want to chill out, relax, and have fun, and for them, wearing a shirt and tie is not conducive to this mindset.

For what it's worth, I find women to be more uncomfortable in work clothes than most most men are. Fortunately for them, they can dress up without looking like they are going to work. For men, there are significantly fewer options. Most of us consider getting dressed up to mean wearing a jacket and tie, and a lot of guys just don't like wearing those because they are either not comfortable in those clothes, or they don't want to look like they just got out of a business meeting. I think the latter (or the combination of both) is what has spawned the whole dressy jeans with jackets/blazers [and the optional tie] look that you see around these days. Men simply don't have the options that women have, and many men today prefer to dress differently outside the work place.

Quote:
Standards have eroded: education, behavior, sartorial, you name it. It's a slippery slope. Quite frankly, I will set the standards in my world. I will warn you, they are high....
I am trembling.
post #21 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by gorgekko View Post
O tempora, o mores!

My friend, outside of your cellphone reference I have read the exact same lament being expressed during the bronze age. Why manners have been sliding so long pretty soon they'll be the worst they've ever been...again.

You've got that one right. I don't remember which tale (it's been years since I've read them), but one of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales features an old priest (or is it the abbess?) who complains thusly. The funny thing is, Chaucer's entire point is that this thing has been going on since the beginning of time.
post #22 of 65
I'm not going to let a bunch of raggedy motherfuckers get in my way of being well-dressed.
post #23 of 65
Noone has addressed the OP's question about when and how this slide started. The Beatles wore suits and ties when they first started. But by the time they split it was psychedelia. What exactly happened there in the 60's, I mean besides the obvious rock n roll? What was the decisive moment? Who was the instigator? Why did standards change so suddenly?
post #24 of 65
there's a good thread on Devil's Island with class photos from UMass Engineering school pics....the photos start in the mid 60s, where everyone is well sussed...and goes up to the 70s where you definitely see a downslide in attire.

and facial hair seems to be the key. the more facial hair and longer the hair, the worse the dress got.

it seems that hair length can be attributed to many of the world's evils...I remember a great article in a punk rock magazine in the 80s where the author wrote about the declining quality on once great bands when their hair grew longer.

fucking hippies.
post #25 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Get Smart View Post
there's a good thread on Devil's Island with class photos from UMass Engineering school pics....the photos start in the mid 60s, where everyone is well sussed...and goes up to the 70s where you definitely see a downslide in attire.

and facial hair seems to be the key. the more facial hair and longer the hair, the worse the dress got.

it seems that hair length can be attributed to many of the world's evils...I remember a great article in a punk rock magazine in the 80s where the author wrote about the declining quality on once great bands when their hair grew longer.

fucking hippies.

Along with the growth of sloppy facial hair, you also saw people with sloppy body types. Coincidence? I think not.
post #26 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by axlpendergast View Post
what is wrong with jeans and t-shirt? or sweat pants that have a hole or three after years of owning them? you wouldn't drive a BMW to go off-roading and you wouldn't drive a KIA expecting the maitre'd to be wowed in an upscale resteraunt.

as for people that really try to go for the homeless man look that's beyond me

In SoFLA you see guys wearing wife beaters, wearing shiny sweatpants, driving 2007 MB S65 AMG’s…

Jon.
post #27 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Get Smart View Post
there's a good thread on Devil's Island with class photos from UMass Engineering school pics....the photos start in the mid 60s, where everyone is well sussed...and goes up to the 70s where you definitely see a downslide in attire.

and facial hair seems to be the key. the more facial hair and longer the hair, the worse the dress got.

it seems that hair length can be attributed to many of the world's evils...I remember a great article in a punk rock magazine in the 80s where the author wrote about the declining quality on once great bands when their hair grew longer.

fucking hippies.

Yeah...

Um, his hair seems pretty short to me:



And at the same time (and its not even my religion!):



Jon.
post #28 of 65
Jesus had short hair.
post #29 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomerJ View Post
Jesus had short hair.

Was Jesus well-dressed?

No.
post #30 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
I am trembling.

Mockery will get you know where. If you choose you can find and embrace mediocrity. Go on, slouch your way to oblivion for all I care. I for one wish to set high standards, just like our successful forefathers. It was demanding high standards and maintaining those standards that paved our road to excellence.

If Washington, Lincoln, or Jefferson had not set high standard, where would we be? If Ike or Patton or Truscott didn't have high standards, we would all be speaking German and there would be a critical shortage of Jews!

You would mock Dr. Demming or or Warren Buffett for setting high standards? Get a gip boy! The rest of the world is running over us while you dwell over your perceived "high ground relative morality".

You'd probably be the first to sue over a design flaw because the product was "not up to standards". It is I that should be trembling........
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