or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Streetwear and Denim › Random fashion thoughts - Part II (A New Hope)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Random fashion thoughts - Part II (A New Hope) - Page 605

post #9061 of 13855

It's not a good article, but the point he makes (at least, conditioning the consumer to expect lower and lower deals) is fair. It's just not new, or limited to grailed...or to fashion...or to anything, really. Grailed is an extension (and affirmation) of an existing culture - their users came from somewhere (SF, SZ, SUFU), and very quickly.

 

Thing is, fashion's more accessible than ever, but is still enough of a niche interest that everyone feels like an insider (and expects insider deals). Seems more like the article's taking issue with the idea that people who don't meet Eugene's criteria for being worthy and authentic are buying clothes he likes. Unfortunately, there's nothing new there either. 

post #9062 of 13855
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

This.  While there is certainly a lot of boring, flat, academic writing, and it's even indirectly encouraged in the name of precision, academic writing is not necessarily boring.  There is still a lot of good, engaging, even fun (nah, I'm going to far, that's a straight up lie) academic writing.  This from someone who has spent a lot of his life reading academic papers.

And while I have serious issue with the way that Grailed exploited Styleforum and other forums to promote his (obviously commercial) venture, in complete, illegal, violation of our ToS, I think that Grailed, itself, is a pretty sound idea.  Probably precisely for the reasons that Faust hates it.  It doesn't democratize fashion, but it allows a range of styles to exist in a marketplace that is, as much as possible, free of bias towards any particular style.  And that, imo, is good for guys who like fashion, because it decontextualizes brands and pieces and allows the person looking at pieces to make up their own style, think up their own combinations.  

I mean, there is no specific reason that Guidi or MA+ or whatever footwear has to be paired with Layer-0 tops and BBS pants, or that you can't wear all of those brands with some SLP jodphurs, or that you can't wear Guidi chukkas with workwear (I could see @ManofKent
 pulling this off really well, actually.  We think that certain brands "work together" mainly because they've been marketed that way to us, and we see these images over and over.  

Eugene is such a tool bag its not even funny. What you said up there is exactly what fashion is about, you can pair some cool things that are outside of an aesthetic. NicelyNice does it all the time and its great here on SF, SZ on the other hand... oh no you can't wear those jeans with those shoes. Too serious for its own good.

Being decked in all rick is cool but don't take yourself too seriously.
post #9063 of 13855

I think that if we can get past the ad hominem stuff there's a kernel there that's worth discussing, it's just framed poorly. And his example - an undercover jacket - does a poor job of illustrating what he's trying to say (itself problematic), because in the article he's associated it purely with the brand - no different than buying supreme for the box logo.

 

To me, the weirdest part is vilifying people who can't meet some sort of arbitrary price cut off, while claiming that fashion transcends price tags - I suppose that, as has been said on SZ before, if you can't pay retail or fly to a store to buy in person, you don't "deserve" to wear the brand - and have to defend your decision to do so by proving how much you know about what you're buying. That's an unhealthy position in a lot of ways.

post #9064 of 13855
Not sure I understand that SZ piece. How is Grailed different from a B&S section of any fashion forum? Is it just because of the scale?

Grailed doesn't have discussion threads for you to go on-and-on about "construction methods, dyeing techniques, and the nature of materials," but it's also not a discussion forum.

My impression is that guys on Grailed also participate on forums. It's not so much replacing forums so much as supplementing it.
post #9065 of 13855
Quote:
Originally Posted by accordion View Post

faust has an extremely academic prose that really has no place in fashion writing, it reads like a sample prompt for a college essay. Shows zero flair, like he's an angry grandfather berating children.

I believe you're talking about David Brooks. BTW the type of prose you,re describing is in no way academic in style.
post #9066 of 13855
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

Not sure I understand that SZ piece. How is Grailed different from a B&S section of any fashion forum? Is it just because of the scale?

Grailed doesn't have discussion threads for you to go on-and-on about "construction methods, dyeing techniques, and the nature of materials," but it's also not a discussion forum.

My impression is that guys on Grailed also participate on forums. It's not so much replacing forums so much as supplementing it.

I think he's saying that separating the clothing from discussion of and knowledge about said clothing damages its "value" - regardless of the price attached. And that you then have a (scaled-up, like you say; which he takes issue with) group of users looking only at the little slashed-out price tag instead of what they're actually buying. 

post #9067 of 13855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post


I believe you're talking about David Brooks. BTW the type of prose you,re describing is in no way academic in style.

 

it might be particular to american education

post #9068 of 13855
Fashion god.

post #9069 of 13855
Seems like two different definitions of "academic writing" here:

Stuff professional academics write and publish in journals. (What comes to mind for me, and most of you.)

Stuff college students write in freshman composition classes. (What I think accordion means.)
post #9070 of 13855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthese View Post

I think he's saying that separating the clothing from discussion of and knowledge about said clothing damages its "value" - regardless of the price attached. And that you then have a (scaled-up, like you say; which he takes issue with) group of users looking only at the little slashed-out price tag instead of what they're actually buying. 

The first part might be true, but I don't get the impression that Grailed users are off the forums. Might be biased since I only hear about Grailed on forums, but I get the sense that Grailed users nerd out on blogs and forums, but then use Grailed to get things at lower prices.

It's like eBay -- nobody interacts with fashion just through eBay. They usually use something else to figure out what they want to buy on eBay (things that presumably do all that "backstory value" that faust is writing about).

Oddly, I think a lot of this backstory stuff has become more important in an internet age when you can't see or touch clothes in person -- so people have to really play up things they can actually convey over an internet wire. Maybe not true for the avant garde stuff since that's inherently conceptual, but I think true for fashion at large (e.g. a plain heritage Americana plaid flannel). Someone could argue this is a very Internet Age argument/ set of values.
post #9071 of 13855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthese View Post

I think he's saying that separating the clothing from discussion of and knowledge about said clothing damages its "value" - regardless of the price attached. And that you then have a (scaled-up, like you say; which he takes issue with) group of users looking only at the little slashed-out price tag instead of what they're actually buying. 

As I said it's making clothing too serious. Discuss but don't force views.
post #9072 of 13855
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthese View Post
 

It's not a good article, but the point he makes (at least, conditioning the consumer to expect lower and lower deals) is fair. It's just not new, or limited to grailed...or to fashion...or to anything, really. Grailed is an extension (and affirmation) of an existing culture - their users came from somewhere (SF, SZ, SUFU), and very quickly.

 

Thing is, fashion's more accessible than ever, but is still enough of a niche interest that everyone feels like an insider (and expects insider deals). Seems more like the article's taking issue with the idea that people who don't meet Eugene's criteria for being worthy and authentic are buying clothes he likes. Unfortunately, there's nothing new there either. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthese View Post
 

I think he's saying that separating the clothing from discussion of and knowledge about said clothing damages its "value" - regardless of the price attached. And that you then have a (scaled-up, like you say; which he takes issue with) group of users looking only at the little slashed-out price tag instead of what they're actually buying. 

The idea of having to "be worthy" to purchase anything is laughable.  Some of the greatest collections of art in the world have been collected by extremely people who were primarily concerned with the accumulation of "the best", and had passing, if any, knowledge or interest, in the art itself.  Their motivations and/or inability to pass through the Shaolin Temple corridor of sartorial warriors in no way invalidate their accomplishment.

 

And fashion is not even art, though it has artistic elements.  It is something made to be consumed.  The "OMG, the uninitiated are wearing it now, it's so ruined" is nothing but the worst type of elitism dressed up in some pretty bad pseudo-intellectual writing.

 

The other point you brought up, that consumers are being conditioned to expect better and better deals, is not something that is confined to fashion, and it's definitely not a product of fashion. That's just our world, period.

post #9073 of 13855
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChetB View Post

Seems like two different definitions of "academic writing" here:

Stuff professional academics write and publish in journals. (What comes to mind for me, and most of you.)

Stuff college students write in freshman composition classes. (What I think accordion means.)

 

I'm talking about the style (American) academics are trained to write with, not academic writing in general. The description is pretty straight forward. And there is no difference between how college freshman are expected to write a research paper compared to the same for grad students, except to a higher standard. What did you imagine the difference to be?

post #9074 of 13855
Actually, nevermind eBay -- how is Grailed's format any different from an online store? Few stores have editorials and they commodify clothes just the same.
post #9075 of 13855
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by accordion View Post
 

 

I'm talking about the style (American) academics are trained to write with, not academic writing in general. The description is pretty straight forward. And there is no difference between how college freshman are expected to write a research paper compared to the same for grad students, except to a higher standard. What did you imagine the difference to be?

This is simply not true.  College Freshmen do not typically, prodigies aside, have the chops to write a real research paper, because they don't have the ability to do good research yet, nor do they have sufficient knowledge to place their research in the greater context of whatever field they are writing about.  And most college freshment research papers, especially those done as assignments, typically contain no new research, no new contributions.  They are synopses or analyses based on already existing work.  In the rare case that a college freshmen does make a contribution, it is typically with the help of a mentor, who is necessary to help the student formulate a question.

 

i co-authored an academic paper as a freshmen, and as a grad student, postdoc, and faculty member, authored papers and mentored graduate students, if that matters at all

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Streetwear and Denim
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Streetwear and Denim › Random fashion thoughts - Part II (A New Hope)