How often does that happen to y'all
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Random fashion thoughts - Part II (A New Hope) - Page 801post #12002 of 171439/24/16 at 7:45pmpost #12003 of 171439/24/16 at 7:54pmI've been out of SW&D related clothes for a while for some reason, which is strange because a little over 12 months ago I was wearing Rick all the time. I'm now wearing a lot of tailored clothes, everything from NMWA (Formosa, Inglese, Rota) sans shoes and accessories. Which is strange because, as I said a while back in this thread, I feel like I identify as a SW&D dude but my closet says CMpost #12004 of 171439/24/16 at 8:11pm^ Maybe sw&d and cm are more about mindset than about the clothes themselves?
IME people in sw&d tend to be fashion descriptivists, while cm guys are prescriptivists. In sw&d posters take fits on their own terms and respond to them not through the lens of their own ideal but based on what the poster seems to be trying to accomplish. You see a lot of posters saying, that's not my thing but I appreciate the execution ... while in cm I see that much less often, with way more focus on objective "rules" and policing, and less ability/desire to think beyond one's own views. That's why I appreciate sw&d conversations more, even though I have a lot of interest in cm clothes also, and spend a lot of time wearing them.post #12005 of 171439/24/16 at 8:29pmQuote:Originally Posted by OccultaVexillum
And I can have a 45 min conversation about fashion no problems but organized as a presentation and lecture and whatever will be a challenge. It just seemed like kind of a strange requirement as it's basically entry level and I wouldn't be going in to see clients, let alone doing the end user education, for at least a year.
45 minutes is a long time in a way—it's far longer than anyone's likely to talk in a presentation/lecture format who doesn't do so regularly for professional reasons—but by the standards of a presentation and lecture and whatever it's pretty middle of the road: I was a professor for a year and I regularly talked about topics I wasn't even necessarily that interested in multiple times a week for that long or longer. I think the trick is this (apologies if it's obvious/you know it all already): it's easier to talk at length on a narrow topic than on a broad topic. (It's easy to *converse* at length on a broad topic because you don't really have to be going anywhere, and it's a collaboration with your conversation partners; you can guide each other, you can go on digressions and it doesn't matter, you can ramble, whatever.) Don't plan to talk for 45 minutes about "fashion" or even about "Rick Owens"; plan to talk about something almost implausibly narrow. Not because you'll just dive right in and talk about that narrow thing, and only that, for the duration, but because then everything introductory you say has a purpose, both from your perspective (you're mentioning it to set something up), and ideally from the audience's perspective as well (it's not just a bunch of stuff). You can still cover a lot of ground, because even a narrow topic will be *related* to a lot of other things, but if you start out with the plan of covering one specific thing, it can really help focus the planning, the actual presentation, all that stuff.post #12006 of 171439/24/16 at 9:03pmRight, but isn't that where Rick falls? Talking about fashion at large seems daunting, even "men's fashion" is still way too broad. But one specific designer seemed specific enough to maintain focus but still diverse enough in content not to run out of story. Aside from that I'm not sure how to narrow it further other than focus on one specific collection of his? Rick isn't a guy that I follow incredibly closely either so in preparing I'm bound to come accepts "new" information that will keep me interested.
Thanks for the tips though guys, I don't want this thread to turn into "help Occulta get paid" so we can leave it here.post #12007 of 171439/24/16 at 9:16pmQuote:This is a great way of putting it. Descriptivist versus prescriptivist. Resonates well with the dissonance I was feeling, and explains why I felt that way.Originally Posted by ChetB
^ Maybe sw&d and cm are more about mindset than about the clothes themselves?
IME people in sw&d tend to be fashion descriptivists, while cm guys are prescriptivists. In sw&d posters take fits on their own terms and respond to them not through the lens of their own ideal but based on what the poster seems to be trying to accomplish. You see a lot of posters saying, that's not my thing but I appreciate the execution ... while in cm I see that much less often, with way more focus on objective "rules" and policing, and less ability/desire to think beyond one's own views. That's why I appreciate sw&d conversations more, even though I have a lot of interest in cm clothes also, and spend a lot of time wearing them.post #12008 of 171439/24/16 at 10:01pmOcculta, perhaps a presentation on tips and tricks to working out and eating right might be easier for you and more relatable to everyone else. Like telling these plebes to replace their rice with cauliflower to lose weight. I'm not too sure about going in with Rick Owens. That may be a bit too out there, a bit too severe. If you're dead set on talking about men's wear, I suggest that you throw in a good chunk of basic knowledge about the culture of men's wear and maybe the busines side of things like preorders, second hand market, the race to the bottom. Hell, I bet you could do a full talk about the debacle that is Toj.post #12009 of 171439/24/16 at 10:11pmpost #12010 of 171439/24/16 at 11:34pmpost #12011 of 171439/25/16 at 3:29amMost of the last say, five years, of my fashion interests have been pointed towards the arte povera stuff and a lot of black and greys, albeit mostly paired with raw denim. Then, as near as I can tell, I saw some Eidos and Frank Leder lookbooks and suddenly I was skimming through Permanent Style, and wanted to buy a pile of new dress shirts.
I actually bought a polo. And a sportcoat. A tie still seems like a bridge too far, but who knows. At the end of the day, just more to love.post #12012 of 171439/25/16 at 3:53am
I think the key is not to be the only one to talk. Honestly most didactic back-and-forth lectures are boring and most people don't listen or learn shit.
I know this might sound naff, but 'engaging' with people is so much more than just standing in the right place saying the right things. They have to be involved in what you're doing (whether that's you walking them through a thought process, having them actually answer questions, completing small activities that preface the next thing you want to talk about).
One of my biggest grievances as a student was that lectures weren't more like teachers, who would actually ask themselves 'well, how can I make this lesson interesting, exciting, cool, challenging, stimulating?' - most lectures don't, can't or won't. So I guess that'd be what I'd suggest (without knowing shit about the job you're applying for).
I don't know, I guess if people walk out with a smile and talking about what they did and what you said that's infinitely better than-a tongue-in-cheek presentation with, like, memes and jokes and shit like that.
I've got some ideas for RO activities for adults, if you're interested PM me.post #12013 of 171439/25/16 at 11:22amThread Starterpost #12014 of 171439/25/16 at 6:29pmpost #12015 of 171439/25/16 at 6:35pm
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