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Random fashion thoughts - Part II (A New Hope) - Page 792

post #11866 of 13856
Thread Starter 

In other news, I called this early:

 

http://nypost.com/2016/09/16/mode-media-screws-its-employees-on-the-way-out/

 

For you guys who don't know already, Mode Media was the company formerly known as Glam Media.  It was essentially an advertising agency/publisher hybrid that subcontracted to a network of bloggers.  It was once valuated at a ridiculous $1B.  I don't know that much about that much, but I do know that you need have essentially the entire world to be reading your stuff for your network of blogs to be worth $1B.

post #11867 of 13856

https://www.businessoffashion.com/articles/news-analysis/totokaelo-founder-jill-wenger-steps-down  

well that was quick

post #11868 of 13856
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post


I don't know if he has to square it since he didn't create this environment. He's just working within it, complaining about what's happened to a thing he loved. If you say his work contributes to that environment, then arguably everyone in fashion is somewhat guilty because everyone contributes it to some way -- the journalists, editors, designers, financiers, shop owners, distributors, etc etc etc.

Maybe everyone is culpable in some way, but since guilt is so widespread, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to complain about the environment and industry they work in.

It's hard to do this any other way at this point. Meaning, even if Raf Simons wanted to completely opt out, do his own brand, and do this totally creative, slow-fashion way, it would be a hard business to sustain (esp at the kind of income that he probably needs to keep up his standard of living).

There's an interview with Jeff Ng, owner/ designer behind Staple, somewhere. I'm too lazy to find it, but he talks about the problem being as such: it's no longer enough to design a good jacket. Once a jacket sells, to keep yourself relevant and in the same stores, you have to do the same jacket in ten different colors the next season. That's just how the seasonal calendar works. Although now, we have pre fall, pre holiday, pre whatever seasons in addition to the two-season SS/ FW calendar.

I interviewed the designers behind Ten C, a somewhat "experimental" concept line, last year. They wanted to do this "forever collection," where they made eight jackets that were supposed to be the best in their class (the best field jacket or whatever) and would never change. That lasted for a few seasons, but then stores were like "in order to keep you on our racks, which is expensive real estate, we need you to introduce new stuff. Otherwise we're just going to pick up another brand and fill that with stuff loyal customers haven't seen." So, they made a few more designs, a few more colors/ materials, etc. And they've become another fashion brand, although not to the speed of Dior or whatever.

There are some brands that are exempt from this, but they tend to be on the CM side of the board. Generally speaking, the fashion system forces designers to keep pace in order to stay relevant/ commercially viable. I don't think any of this would change if Raf designed for his own, small line or a big brand like CK. The system is way bigger than what he does. He's just complaining about it.
I think it depends on what we mean by sponsorship. If we're talking about content creators, I think some sponsorships are inherently more honest than others. Disclosure is always better than not, but some types of sponsorships I would rather not see at all. If at all possible, anyway.

Again, I think the practice of brands gifting an item for "review" is inherently problematic. Easy way around this: just return the item once you're done seeing it. If you use it in order to review it, then return the used item once you're done. The possibility of keeping things in exchange for creating content can inherently bias you to create a certain kind of content.

That said, I know this space is still really new, people have different opinions, and I don't think things are as cut and dry as some people might think. I just think there are gradations of honesty here, and it's better to push content creators to be more honest than not (without also being so cynical as throwing your hands up and saying "they're all dishonest"). If you don't help build a space for good content, then all fashion media will just come from brand blogs and IG accounts, which is probably the worst of all scenarios. Even worse than the old crappy GQ model, which was rife with advertorials.

Content will not be created unless there is money for the content creators, and the brands, which fund the content being created, have found that funding content that is directly about their products gives a much better ROI than funding whatever the hell it is that some investigative reporter wants to spend months doing.

 

I am not sure how any of this is going to pan out, but I think that it's important to note that the focus of journalism has been traditionally quite narrow, and that advertorials were common in reputable newspapers well into the 20th century.  

 

Re. the old GQ model, I don't dislike it as much as you do, possibly because I never saw them as anything more than what Mens no-no, or any number of Japanese, magazines, are, cover-to-cover ads that look cool.  I'm not sure that I see the harm in that, as long as people use it for what it is intended as - a way to find things that look cool.  tbh, back in the day, I used to look mostly at the ads, and maybe gawk at the cool clothes and the high prices, and that was it.  I don't think that the style pages of GQ were ever meant to provide an "objective" POV, if that even has any meaning in the context of writing about fashion and style.  Those who are really interested will look beyond that, and find more. 

 

If you are looking for consumer reviews, I feel that they don't even really make much sense in fashion, unless you are reviewing something with a very narrow function, like motorcycle protective gear.  After all, there is no objective metric of cool, which is ultimately what fashion and style are about.  

 

Something like the forum are a little different.  I don't regard ourselves as a publisher, in the traditional sense, though that is what the media world calls us now.  

post #11869 of 13856
Thread Starter 

I worked with Chris Bossola starting in 2009, but haven't had much contact with him recently.  Unless the guy has changed his core personality and inclinations, Totokaelo probably has a much better manager now.

post #11870 of 13856
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

Incidentally, and I just got this today, but we get this stuff all the time, and I am sure that other publications do as well:






 








 
We would clearly never go for this, for any number of reasons.  But stuff like this is pretty prevalent online.





Funny thing is, stuff like that is done purely for SEO, and not for any direct sale objectives.

Incidentally, the online gambling/forex/etc sites are a complete shitshow of dishonest marketing, particularly when it comes to affiliates who don't disclose their working relationships with the brands they're promoting.
post #11871 of 13856
Are liberties moving away from menswear? If you go to their new site I cannot find an easy way to browse their listings, it is all just accessories.
post #11872 of 13856
Quote:
 I think that the waters get much murkier when the sponsorship is NOT made explicit, (which is what the FTC is apparently going to be going after) and where there is not just an endorsement (I mean, if a moron thinks that a sports star wears Nike because it performs better than Underarmor, or vice versa, that moron is beyond the reach of critical thinking anyway), but something that masquerades as an objective review.  

 

 

We're all super sophisticated consumers here and so obviously not morans. But this kind of marketing succeeds because most people are morons  not paying so much attention, not because they're stupid but just because they're casual consumers of X, whether that's fashion or liquor or travel. They don't have the time to join a forum develop a knowledgeable peer group, and they don't necessarily differentiate between advertorial and editorial. It works on those people, and those people are most people.

 

 

 

 

Good discussion btw, SF needs to sponsor a traveling fuuma lecture series (with a wine pairing, preferably)

post #11873 of 13856
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoreman1782 View Post
 

We're all super sophisticated consumers here and so obviously not morans. But this kind of marketing succeeds because most people are morons  not paying so much attention, not because they're stupid but just because they're casual consumers of X, whether that's fashion or liquor or travel. They don't have the time to join a forum develop a knowledgeable peer group, and they don't necessarily differentiate between advertorial and editorial. It works on those people, and those people are most people.

 

Good discussion btw, SF needs to sponsor a traveling fuuma lecture series (with a wine pairing, preferably)

That type of marketing succeeds, yes.  However, I think that it's a stretch to think that it succeeds because a consumer thinks: "David Beckham is wearing this, so it must be good (in some 'objective' manner.)"  Rather, I would guess that the thinking is "Oh, yeah, that looked good on David Beckham.  I want that."  The motivation for that consumer is to look cool like Beckham, natural good looks, athletic build and ability, and wealth and fame, aside.  I don't see this as deleterious or dishonest.  

 

If someone wants to get the safety rating on a Lincoln, maybe they'll look for online reviews, or the Blue book, or whatever.  I really don't think that something like this is ever seen as a substitute.  It just builds a cool narrative:
 

post #11874 of 13856
Story time: Mulberry's RTW has never sold well, especially in the states. Kate Middleton once wore a Mulberry cape/coat out and it immediately sold out in the US. Kim Kardashian wearing the SLP SL1 sunglasses has caused them to repeatedly sell out in the states. Look at the celeb JE hype. Tons of people walk into boutiques with pictures of celebs and say "I want that".
post #11875 of 13856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post


I'm in Bahston right now, well rented a victorian house in Newton. Very fashunz! (nope) Honestly not influenced that much I think, not because I'm immune to marketing or something, it is just that I move around too much and my references often come from dead non-marketers so it is hard to go at it. There's also a repellent effect in fashion + so many things going on that it is almost unreadable a sea of signs.

Nope: our very own Jeffrey Y. just told me to buy Champagne Kirkland brand at Costco (by french producer maison Janisson), haha.

I like this place in Bahston, any other recs:
http://bin26.com/

 

http://www.toscanoboston.com/ - straightforward but good italian, kind of a more formal sit-down date spot that I'm not sure I'd actually take a date to

 

http://www.barakacafe.com/ - algerian / tunisian, no alcohol though

 

http://www.theloniousmonkfish.com/ - pretty good sushi, often has a jazz band

 

Santarpio's - best pizza in the city I think, near the airport. Dirty floors, only serves like Rolling Rock and Budweiser and has old school italian-american waiters, but it's great if you're in the mood

 

http://www.sinclaircambridge.com/ - I've never bothered with their food, but if you want a drink during the day they have a really nice roof deck and one of the best bloody marys in the city

post #11876 of 13856
Headed to london in few days , anybody around wanna have some afternoon tea biggrin.gif
post #11877 of 13856
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37426664

I'll wait for Margiela to release one I think.
post #11878 of 13856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

I like this place in Bahston, any other recs:
http://bin26.com/

 

Drink, Backbar, Lord Hobo (in Cambridge) and Deep Ellum (in Allston) are all good.

post #11879 of 13856

Apologies if this is untoward, but the recent discussion has me wondering how Styleforum itself makes money (assuming it does).

post #11880 of 13856
Quote:
Originally Posted by oulipien View Post

Apologies if this is untoward, but the recent discussion has me wondering how Styleforum itself makes money (assuming it does).

This whole forum thing is actually a front for a dark web server on which Fok runs a completely unregulated black market where you can acquire ... unmentionables eek.gif

Think about it. Styleforum is an anagram of Fuel My Tors . Onion router running amok. Who knows what sort of perverted buyers and sellers there are, imagine combing B&S, dumb threads, and CE...pretty sure that explained the manifestation of Miran. And where Drew Keith took his $8M in Bitcoin.
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