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Random fashion thoughts - Part II (A New Hope) - Page 780

post #11686 of 15184

If someone is venting in all caps on instagram they are either completely justified, vaguely psychotic or both.

 

RW seems to have its own niche, he should just roll with it since it will probably increase the demand for RW products which look so special compared to JC clothing. Handcrafted vs mostly mass produced factory made, its a slightly different market.

post #11687 of 15184
TBH, i don't think the value proposition in RW is about design anyway. It's all production process. They use vintage fabrics and a lot more handwork to get that sort of unique boro look. It's really easy for those sorts of things to look hokey on the mass market level.

Which is why focusing on the J. Crew thing seems strange to me. They definitely didn't invent the idea, but the gist of their company isn't really about design, it's about production process. J. Crew can never do that sort of production at an affordable price point, so they're in two totally different spheres.
post #11688 of 15184
Thread Starter 

I am probably being dense here, but I'm looking at the pictures of the two pairs, and they look pretty different to me.  The look alike in the same way that my Blue Blue Japan and my Samurai sashiko chore coats look the same - in that they don't except maybe at first glance.

 

Anyway, if @rareweaves really thinks that J Crew ripped him off detail by detail, I can see why he'd be pissed.  However, it would have seemed like a much better strategic move (and maybe he had already made it) for him to ask them to carry some of his stuff at "In Good Company", or otherwise negotiate a no lose, maybe win, deal.  

post #11689 of 15184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

TBH, i don't think the value proposition in RW is about design anyway. It's all production process. They use vintage fabrics and a lot more handwork to get that sort of unique boro look. It's really easy for those sorts of things to look hokey on the mass market level.

Which is why focusing on the J. Crew thing seems strange to me. They definitely didn't invent the idea, but the gist of their company isn't really about design, it's about production process. J. Crew can never do that sort of production at an affordable price point, so they're in two totally different spheres.

Well, pepple get pissed off when they perceive a slight, whether or not the reaction is rational is another matter.

 

With all that said, a series of Instagram posts in all caps raging against the machine's jeans just makes you look a little insane.  One post, maybe two, okay.  But I think that he is up to something like 5 now.  

 

It would be interesting to interview him (note to @Synthese - doable?) and see his take on this.  I suppose we could contact J Crew for a response, but if they are smart, they would would not get into a ground war with a small little guy.

post #11690 of 15184
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

I am probably being dense here, but I'm looking at the pictures of the two pairs, and they look pretty different to me.  The look alike in the same way that my Blue Blue Japan and my Samurai sashiko chore coats look the same - in that they don't except maybe at first glance.

Anyway, if @rareweaves really thinks that J Crew ripped him off detail by detail, I can see why he'd be pissed.  However, it would have seemed like a much better strategic move (and maybe he had already made it) for him to ask them to carry some of his stuff at "In Good Company", or otherwise negotiate a no lose, maybe win, deal.  

I completely agree with this. I honestly don't get what this is about except for the "you styled with my clothes for free then designed pants that look kind of similar." But like everyone already said, this technique and look as been around for ages and RW definitely wasn't the first. If Jcrew went to a retailer and bought an RW piece and then came out with a patchwork-whatever would this be a non issue?
post #11691 of 15184

I THINK TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS A PERFECTLY REASONABLE WAY TO CONVEY YOUR POINT TO OTHERS. THIS DOESN'T AT ALL SEEM LIKE I TROLL THE COMMENTS SECTION ON YAHOO. 

post #11692 of 15184
COS's rip-off of peir wu's lapel-less coat was a much more cut and dried case of idea 'theft', i think she posted the two designs side by side on instagram without even a comment, which seems about all one can do.
i'm sure the outburst won't do hartley any harm though. people who buy into the whole rareweaves enterprise will just see it as a sign of integrity.
Edited by robinsongreen68 - 9/13/16 at 2:56pm
post #11693 of 15184
She didn't invent the lapel less coat. Giorgio Armani did that before her and Mainbocher did that before him thank you very much
post #11694 of 15184
No one is implying that she did, but it is true that COS blatantly ripped off the design and the cut of her coat.
post #11695 of 15184
What cut? It's a sack, shapeless coat.
post #11696 of 15184
On balance, I don't think it's that big of a deal when high street brands rip off established designers. I know I keep referencing this, but Johanna Blakely's talk about this is quite good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLUzgWAEGjY

(Also, I hate linking to things I've written, cause it seems gross and self-promoting, but here's a summary for anyone who thinks the video is too long: http://putthison.com/post/97144694933/are-you-wearing-knockoffs-when-we-think-of)

The only time I think it's an issue is when a big brand rips off a small, independent designer -- a designer who's career could be made off a star item. I suppose Rare Weaves kind of falls into that, although again, I don't think the design is new and the production process isn't possible at a J. Crew price point.
post #11697 of 15184
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

(Also, I hate linking to things I've written, cause it seems gross and self-promoting, but here's a summary for anyone who thinks the video is too long: http://putthison.com/post/97144694933/are-you-wearing-knockoffs-when-we-think-of)

The only time I think it's an issue is when a big brand rips off a small, independent designer -- a designer who's career could be made off a star item. I suppose Rare Weaves kind of falls into that, although again, I don't think the design is new and the production process isn't possible at a J. Crew price point.

 

From the putthison link: "In a nutshell, her argument is: fashion’s free-for-all culture drives trends, which in turn, pushes innovation. In other words, fashion evolves like this: one company introduces a risky, but good design, and when it proves successful in the market, other high-end designers copy it."

 

Take it away, Georg Simmel! "Fashion is a form of imitation and so of social equalization, but, paradoxically, in changing incessantly, it differentiates one time from another and one social stratum from another. It unites those a social class and segregates them from others. The elite initiates a fashion and, when the mass imitates it in an effort to obliterate the external distinctions of class, abandons it for a newer mode—a process that quickens with the increase of wealth." (This is just from the abstract.)

post #11698 of 15184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by colabear View Post

She didn't invent the lapel less coat. Giorgio Armani did that before her and Mainbocher did that before him thank you very much

And Margiela has done them in his Margiela 1 line, and doesn't Thamanyah do one as well.  I often think that designers might have an inflated idea of self.  I think that probably closer to the truth is the designers are affected by the zeitgeist and come up with things simultaneously.  I mean, this happens in fields as specific as mathematics (a theorem has been proven by multiple mathematicians, working independently, and unaware of the other's work.)  Doesn't it make more sense that designers might create very similar pieces of clothing, which are much more social objects than mathematical proofs, at roughly the same time?

 

Incidentally, this happened to me in my thesis.  I was about a year out from graduation when we found that someone has published a preliminary article using a very similar method to attack the same problem as I was doing in my thesis.  Luckily, I had already laid out the groundwork in a few papers before that, so we could claim that we'd done it first.  However, the two groups did not know one another, there was no overlap in personnel (if there had been, the protocol is usually to collaborate and co-author an article).  I was always notorious for not really caring at all about the politics of academia, to the point that I once introduced myself to a Nobel Prize winner without knowing who he was, nor that he had won a Nobel Prize a few years earlier.  So I certainly didn't know about the existence of the other group. iirc, I was surprised to find out that the university existed!

post #11699 of 15184
Some other company is offering a similar product to our business and we're going to fail <-- Every executive meeting I've been present in, ever
post #11700 of 15184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinsongreen68 View Post

COS's rip-off of peir wu's lapel-less coat was a much more cut and dried case of idea 'theft', i think she posted the two designs side by side on instagram without even a comment, which seems about all one can do.
i'm sure the outburst won't do hartley any harm though. people who buy into the whole rareweaves enterprise will just see it as a sign of integrity.

As an exercise, I just made a sketch of a lapelless coat.  It is the type of sketch that I'd have made if someone told me "Design a lapelless coat".  I had not seen any pictures AFAIK, of Peir Wu's coat, before hand.  I am also not a designer, so though I've been exposed to fashion for a long time, I am not subject to the same aesthetic conditioning that designers that have gone to a design school have.  

 

I then googled "Peir Wu lapelless coat", and they looked, perhaps unsurprisingly, fairly similar.  The only images that I had in my head when making a sketch was a vague recollection of a Margiela lapelless coat, a picture I'd seen years ago in an LN-CC lookbook, and a Marni coat my wife has worn for years.  I simply took the lapels off of that and tried to create a tulip shape when I took the lapels off.  

 

I think that there are only so many ways to design a lapelless coat, maybe.

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