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Random fashion thoughts - Part II (A New Hope) - Page 772

post #11566 of 15069
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChetB View Post

Really enjoyed this:

"The Myth of Fashion as Self-Expression" by @Rosenrot

glad you posted this. one of the best things I've read about fashion in quite a while
post #11567 of 15069
And the end of the saga that no one cares about, the RLPL suede bomber came in. Exactly what I was hoping for. It's fantastic, and the fit is spot on.

Here are some pictures from tonight (one from the late evening with some sun to show the color). The suede has so much depth of color, super soft, and only lined on the sleeves (the leather backing on the suede is super supple as well). Suede ribbing on the sleeves and hem too.




post #11568 of 15069
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChetB View Post

Really enjoyed this:

"The Myth of Fashion as Self-Expression" by @Rosenrot

Can't it be both? Fashion as both constrained by social pressure and an expression of personal identity?

The line about clothing being constrained by our age, race, religion, class, gender, etc seems strange since it's a double edged sword, no? We're both constrained by those things, but fashion is also how we express our allegiance to them (they're part of our personal identity). Within those confines, there's also great personal expression -- the people find ways to show they're individuals within a broader group. See how private school students often subvert rules about dress by personalizing their uniform in some way. Or how soldiers have personalized their headgear or jackets -- military units being the strictest of social organizations. Eg. Vietnam soldiers painting their helmets or WWII fighter pilots painting their jackets.

Not sure why we should set this up as dichotomous. Social pressure is probably the first and outmost layer of fashion, setting the bounds for what we choose, but underneath that, there's a lot of room for personal expression.
Edited by dieworkwear - 9/7/16 at 9:17pm
post #11569 of 15069
Walked into DSM Tokyo. Lots of cool stuff.. Only people buying anything were China tourists.. Heh.

Also... uniqlo 5 zip lol
post #11570 of 15069
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

Can't it be both? Fashion as both constrained by social pressure and an expression of personal identity?

The line about clothing being constrained by our age, race, religion, class, gender, etc seems strange since it's a double edged sword, no? We're both constrained by those things, but fashion is also how we express our allegiance to them (they're part of our personal identity). Within those confines, there's also great personal expression -- the people find ways to show they're individuals within a broader group. See how private school students often subvert rules about dress by personalizing their uniform in some way. Or how soldiers have personalized their headgear or jackets -- military units being the strictest of social organizations. Eg. Vietnam soldiers painting their helmets or WWII fighter pilots painting their jackets.

Not sure why we should set this up as dichotomous. Social pressure is probably the first and outmost layer of fashion, setting the bounds for what we choose, but underneath that, there's a lot of room for personal expression.

But how we subvert dress codes is often equally governed by convention and social pressures, no? eg. most of those ww2 jackets all have the same kind of girl / plane/ bombs design on them. Or I guess in some cases the choice of design might only be fully comprehensible if you're part of the military unit and so reinforce group identity.
post #11571 of 15069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorcan7 View Post

But how we subvert dress codes is often equally governed by convention and social pressures, no? eg. most of those ww2 jackets all have the same kind of girl / plane/ bombs design on them. Or I guess in some cases the choice of design might only be fully comprehensible if you're part of the military unit and so reinforce group identity.

I suppose that's true, but then I don't know what we're taking as the standard for personal expression. Something totally new and completely uninfluenced by your peers, culture, trends, etc? That seems like a somewhat unrealistic bar to meet, and not what people mean when they say they use clothes to express themselves.

To make an analogy, people use other forms of communication to express their character -- creative writing, music, art, etc. I don't think we expect those people to do so in completely new and innovative ways. Someone could write a really trite poem and still be expressing themselves as a person.

I think of fashion as sort of a large milieu of options. There are some options closed off to you because of social pressure, but among the options available, figuring out what you like can be very personal.
post #11572 of 15069
Enjoyable read. In my view, there are two factors at play, neither of which preclude fashion as a form of individual self-expression but both limit it.

The first is the constraints, be they social, societal, professional, financial, legal, whatever. Everyone is limited in terms of clothing choices in the way Rosenrot describes, and while the boundaries are malleable and inevitably shift over time, they're very real and affect everyone to some extent, albeit in varying ways from person to person.

The second is, for lack of a better way of phrasing it, the outcomes of the choices we make. Nothing exists in a vacuum, and what we view as individual fashion identities may be more accurately described as group or tribal identities. We're constantly aligning ourselves with or against one or more collective identities whether we consciously acknowledge it or not. Identities are relative, and to some extent we can only define ourselves in relation to others.

These factors hold true across all forms of self-expression (visual, political, artistic, interpersonal, &c.) to at least some extent, but I wouldn't say that this invalidates the concept of individual self-expression per se; it merely contextualizes it.
post #11573 of 15069
Nigel Cabourn is my favorite follow on IG. In every photo in which he appears he looks like he's having the time of his life (the majority of which, is seems anyway, is spent with very attractive women).
post #11574 of 15069
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post


I suppose that's true, but then I don't know what we're taking as the standard for personal expression. Something totally new and completely uninfluenced by your peers, culture, trends, etc? That seems like a somewhat unrealistic bar to meet, and not what people mean when they say they use clothes to express themselves.


Right, the trick is that if "self-expression" means radical self-expression, uninfluenced by anyone, then there are two problems:

 

 1. it's not just fashion that doesn't do the trick. Basically nothing does the trick. Even if you make your own clothes (out of fabric you've made yourself?) you can't avoid the pervasive influence of what's around you. Neither fashion nor anything else can stand entirely outside of the social.

 

 2. … and that applies to the self being expressed, too! Self-expression can't mean radical self-expression like that because the self purportedly being expressed *also* doesn't stand outside the social.

 

There's really no reason to think that self-expression has to be, in any way, correlated with being novel or different. There's an entirely robust sense in which Jacques Pepin expresses himself in making a consommé double, but what he's going to make isn't going to be "his own spin" on it. It's going to be a perfectly executed traditional French dish.

 

Even so, it's possible to take the stuff with which we're provided by society (both in terms of prevailing norms and in terms of products with which to clothe ourselves) and make something *personal*, which doesn't have to be radically alien. They're the tools with which one can work, and it's perfectly possible to work with them while acknowledging social pressures, social origins, etc. It doesn't do to have too inflated a conception of what self-expression involves, and anyway it's trivializing.

post #11575 of 15069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggskip View Post

Nigel Cabourn is my favorite follow on IG. In every photo in which he appears he looks like he's having the time of his life (the majority of which, is seems anyway, is spent with very attractive women).

 

Agreed...he's the happiest/most involved designer I've seen online

post #11576 of 15069

He's a riot

post #11577 of 15069
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post


I suppose that's true, but then I don't know what we're taking as the standard for personal expression. Something totally new and completely uninfluenced by your peers, culture, trends, etc? That seems like a somewhat unrealistic bar to meet, and not what people mean when they say they use clothes to express themselves.

To make an analogy, people use other forms of communication to express their character -- creative writing, music, art, etc. I don't think we expect those people to do so in completely new and innovative ways. Someone could write a really trite poem and still be expressing themselves as a person.

I think of fashion as sort of a large milieu of options. There are some options closed off to you because of social pressure, but among the options available, figuring out what you like can be very personal.

 

I'd say there's a difference between expressing yourself through having a great record collection and actually writing music (even if its a really trite song). Creative writing, music, art - even if they rely on conventional forms (language, materials, etc.) is to me different from buying, collecting and arranging a bunch of items designed and made by other people. I guess with bespoke tailoring, or a hand painted leather jacket there might be a greater level of creative input, but this to me is often still operating within quite a narrow set of conventions (Robert Geller's doodle of menswear being a very small box comes to mind).

 

I still find the idea of clothing as a kind of personal expression seductive though. I guess if I didn't, I probably wouldn't buy so much stuff :o

post #11578 of 15069

Is this guy trying to scam me?

 

Egyptian dude wants to buy my Guidi boots. Can't go through ebay because paypal is blocked in Egypt - true enough. And I didn't want to accept bank transfer of course. First he wanted me to accept the payment from some guy in France who owed him, but I said I wanted to request payment instead so I could include a message with the product description and photos and stuff. Well, he found another solution.

 

Instead he says he has a friend in Italy who will paypal me the amount. Then he wanted me to send to another address in Italy than the Italian friend's address, but I insist that I have to send to the address it says on Paypal to get seller protection. He says that's ok.

 

So theoretically I should be safe?

 

Anyway, I really don't know if it's just a guy from Egypt who has a really hard time buying because he can't use paypal and legitimately doesn't realize how shady it seems, or if he's a scammer.

EDIT: Googling a little, it seems like the Egyptian guy does actually own a record label in Egypt like he claims, and there's a facebook page and pictures of him and an interview and stuff..


Edited by Benjaminba - 9/8/16 at 12:09pm
post #11579 of 15069

Anyone know when Isaora stopped shipping internationally? Looks like they only ship to the US now. Something to do with being sold through Ssense now?

post #11580 of 15069
They probably happened around the same time yes if they were selling their running tops via ssense i'd buy one probably

Something that currently bugs me, is websites with multiple pages of listings seem to nearly always have teeny tiny next page buttons for instance east dane and ralph lauren website

They must know i use a tablet and have fat stubby fingers so am constantly failing to go to the right page
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