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P Johnson Tailors - San Francisco and Los Angeles Visit - May - Page 2

post #16 of 29
I'm sure Brendon will chime in here himself, but here's a post he made here on StyleForum in 2012 talking about his experience. I've quoted him exactly:

"Experience is 10 plus years with Made to Measure and 18 years part and full time training as a Bespoke tailor and Cutter under an ex Savile Row Tailor.( part of those 18 years during made to measure time).

Unfortunately to roughly quote someone from Gieves and Hawkes in London, " after 35 years of bespoke I am still learning"....not good news for me.

There are good tailors and bad, not all bespoke is good, on the flip side a made to measure suit can never really fit. The good news is only a bespoke cutter tailor and his or her client would know, so from that point of view most suits fit if you follow the logic.....However if a magazine or newspaper calls Murray Crane is a tailor again, I think next year I will watch CSI and call myself a forensic scientist."

I think he's, therefore, quite entitled to hold, and share, the opinion he does on this subject matter.
post #17 of 29
Thank you for the clarifications. PJT stuff looks good at a good price point.

But they are not bespoke or a tailoring shop.
post #18 of 29

Hi Spectre

I thought I was being quite logical in my argument and contribution to this thread. I am a tailor, but leave that aside. I am not the one hanging " Tailor" above my door and being misleading as I pointed out quite carefully. If 5 of you have commented on P Jonson and 1 or more of you thought you were buying a tailored suit, then that, ( and I am being polite here) slightly misleading advertising is working on 20%, the 20 % who said it was good enough anyway. So no need to mislead in the first place. That seems logical at least.

I also pointed out that not all tailors are good and I am certainly not the best. I know better. You are only as good as your last suit after all. The last 3 clients were very happy and took the trouble to let me know.

Which is nice. I am always a little apprehensive after 80 Hours of toil that I have done my best for all. 

 

However I stand by what I say and having a fair amount of expertise to say it. I like to think of it all, like a Venn diagram, I think that's the right term. In circle "A" is off the peg "B" is Made to Measure, "C" is Fits extremely well and "D" is "Bespoke".

Perhaps for arguments sake 2% of A overlaps with C, 10% of B overlaps with C and say 40% of D overlaps with C. None of this is scientific of course but you get the idea of what I think on this.

I think you ought to know that some factories buy very good cloth.Tailors and Made to measure depend on what is termed cut length. Here is an idea of how it works.

eg

240 M  plus of cloth ie 4 pieces from a mill say 21 GBP per M,

2 pieces or 120 say 23 GBP per M

30 m plus say 29 GBP per M

Cut length ie a suit length say 60 GBP per M

 

Sometimes a large factory will be buying the same quality, Cut length offers you the variety of choice and as you can see you are paying a premium.and that's fair. Someone has to roll off the length, inspect it and put the piece back and send the length.

It would be fair to say,the only people who know a good cloth from a bad one will be someone with a lot of experience at working with the cloth over there knee. You become familiar with problems from different weaves and ranges. And when you think you have got to Yoda status, then you talk with someone who's job it is to make the cloth, whether it be design or on the Mill floor and you realize how much you don't know yet and naturally beyond that you don't know what you don't know. ( I can't stand that saying) 

 

With MTM you don't do anything with the cloth, you just have the label to go by and all you get is staple length ie super 100's..etc. all you have is touch. I did watch a suit salesman smell a cloth once, I thought he was going to eat it next.

 

I think if you took the time ( if you can bear it) to re read what I said in my previous post on this thread you will see i am in support of MTM as it is. I am not in support of it when it deliberately aspires to be something else it is not. I think I was quite complimentary about P Johnson it seemed to be a neatly finished factory suit. Did it fit? In my opinion, not even close. Short in the front Balance, too long in the back balance for starters, but I guess you had to be there.

As for the 8K for a suit. No wonder I am poor. 4K is what I currently charge but to be sure prices are going up on Monday!

I would have replied earlier but was at the flicks seeing " The Woman in Gold" ...highly recommended,

I think you may be aware that I will not be joining you as fully paid up members of the P Johnson cheer squad whilst they continue with Tailors as their MO and I think that is fair.and that I have presented this thoroughly.... again

Regards

Brendon

post #19 of 29
All I can say is my two dozen suits and jackets all fit me perfectly. I know this. You and the wraith do not. There is no argument here. Balance etc is spot on. They have never even been altered after initially arriving.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Cutler in Sydney charges around $7-8000 and you come out looking like most off the peg suits which have been altered. They are just plain boring.

It seems to be the 'tailor' in P Johnson's name which offends you. no they don't make paper patterns and cut cloth in their workshop, but the suits look brilliant and the price point is as good as it gets.

I can't understand your jargon about cloths but I have five Loro Piana cashmere sport coats which are perfect and now fit like old cardigans (but have retained their shape).

You saw one coat but you don't say which of their several lines it was from.

The problem with most bespoke, including Cutler, all of Savile Row, Chan etc, is that they are unable and refuse to deviate from the house style they have made forever.

P Johnson offers a more sporty, laid back, varied look with different looks, levels of padding, even three different shoulder treatments, including a full Neapolitan "waterfall."

If you asked Huntsman to do that they'd call the police.

Edit: Perhaps we should wait until we see how the garments turn out and whether or not people are please with PJ or not.
Edited by spectre - 4/18/15 at 4:13pm
post #20 of 29

Chan has been very flexible ime.

post #21 of 29

Hi Spectre

Yes, I wouldn't say offended, they are obviously just trying to make a living as we all are.,But a little, wouldn't you be. I am not sure of your profession say your an accountant, what if a bookkeeper started calling themselves a qualified accountant. Why call yourself one thing when another perfectly good set of words exist " muddy the waters"I think I said.

 

I wrote a lot of words to explain it. I thought it was quite straightforward, finally you seem to have re read my post. Yes they are not "TAILORS". But they call themselves this. Why...  If what they do is so much better?

 

Perhaps after 150 years of trading as Huntsmans have and Cutlers even longer, P Johnson as Made to Measure kings will have a house style as well.

As far as jargon about cloth the super # or stale length have been used as a marketing tool for decades, no secret new stuff there, I don't understand your confusion. Perhaps I was not clear, apologies.

 

Your point of tailors not changing with the times is fair, but some do. But perhaps some of them have been through the 70's with the lapels almost touching the sleeves and shoulders, the 80's and the shoulders that "

Ming the merciless" would have been in envy of, and the naughties with the coats half way up the seat and jackets so tight that the wool is under strain with poorly cut seats of trousers as the explanation point!.

As a tailor you do develop a house cut. a tailor would be silly to disregard his/her previous experience but the need to adapt is apparent as every 1/4 generation expresses it's individuality in change. I think this one ( noughties) has been fairly significant, if you look at the history of the suit or 3 seamer as it was first called.

 

You do bandy the word perfect around a lot. If you have found the perfect suit then lucky you. You've paid for it and your obviously very happy with it, so great. We all want happy customers. My experience tells me otherwise. You have not asked for my opinion and I would not be so rude give it unless you asked me to do so.

 There are 4 balances a skilled tailor will look for to hide the shortcomings of a figure and present the figure at it's best. Every one has a different idea of what this is. ie the " Cut".There is no right or wrong all have different ideas, you go to the one you think has it right for you.....But from what I saw of PJ these are very basic errors that are not to do with cut, but fitting skill and these errors were easily able to be fixed by a made to measure system to achieve a much better fitting suit. It's not one I would have let go out of the shop if I was reduced to MTM.                                                                                                               There are some people who believed that JC walked with dinosaurs, nothing I say will change their minds and I wouldn't bother trying.                                                                                                                                                                                   Regards

Brendon

post #22 of 29
Thread Starter 
I'm going to be looking for a loose weave, textured blend in linen/cotton/silk/wool in a sand/tan/olive color. I like the idea of texture and to wear with light grey, white, off white trousers or jeans.

NOBO had a jacket made up using this cloth. Something like this could work well for a casual jacket.

post #23 of 29
^Looks good. Something along those lines is definitely on my list. I've been looking for an unconstructed tobacco linen/silk hopsack w/out luck.
post #24 of 29
Thread Starter 
That is why I like MTM. I'm not hard to fit but I can get my favorite combinations of fabrics and construction details.
post #25 of 29
Thread Starter 
Another forum member has an appointment to get a wedding tux. Looking forward to seeing it.
post #26 of 29
Pictures? Report? Anyone?
post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectre View Post

All I can say is my two dozen suits and jackets all fit me perfectly. I know this. You and the wraith do not. There is no argument here. Balance etc is spot on. They have never even been altered after initially arriving.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Cutler in Sydney charges around $7-8000 and you come out looking like most off the peg suits which have been altered. They are just plain boring.

It seems to be the 'tailor' in P Johnson's name which offends you. no they don't make paper patterns and cut cloth in their workshop, but the suits look brilliant and the price point is as good as it gets.

I can't understand your jargon about cloths but I have five Loro Piana cashmere sport coats which are perfect and now fit like old cardigans (but have retained their shape).

You saw one coat but you don't say which of their several lines it was from.

The problem with most bespoke, including Cutler, all of Savile Row, Chan etc, is that they are unable and refuse to deviate from the house style they have made forever.

P Johnson offers a more sporty, laid back, varied look with different looks, levels of padding, even three different shoulder treatments, including a full Neapolitan "waterfall."

If you asked Huntsman to do that they'd call the police.

Edit: Perhaps we should wait until we see how the garments turn out and whether or not people are please with PJ or not.

Apologies for digging this up.

PJT are coming to London. I've read your points and definitely agree with you spectre. A MTM outfit (nothing to say MTM cant fit you amazingly - particularly as their style is more unstructured) with good style.

Interested to hear how you would compare it to SuitSUpply. (I'm London based) and at this price range I think they offer the best comparison. Suit supply being comparatively cheaper MTM/offering exactly the same customisation ability but not the handwork element. What would you say the differences are? For me If I can get a MTM unstructured sportsjacket from suit supply for 400-500, compared to PJT selling them at 800-900 for MTM but with handwork - id rather go suit supply. And then with the money 1.5k~gbp go fully bespoke...

post #28 of 29
There are plenty of tailoring options in London already at all price points. Seek these out first I would suggest.
post #29 of 29

Care to recommend? I live in london (starting actively going tailored in the last few months) and I dont know of any at that price point. 

Soft tailored/neopolitan, would be amazed to hear your recommendations - inb4 Graham browne, cad and the dandy which are british tailoring

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