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Carmina vs. Carmina for the Armoury

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
Anybody know what the difference between these two are? They look pretty much the same to me but the ones for the Armoury cost about $180 more.

http://shop.thearmoury.com/us/categories/footwear/carmina-uetam-80285-loafer-suede-natural

http://shop.carminashoemaker.com/articulo.asp?idarticulo=4320584

Thanks
post #2 of 17
They should be exactly the same although I know The Armoury offer a version with a lower vamp
post #3 of 17

Likely the same thing just with a price bump for the Armoury!

 

*** I say in jest without any actual knowledge. But that doesn't mean I'm still correct.

post #4 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowndes View Post

Anybody know what the difference between these two are? They look pretty much the same to me but the ones for the Armoury cost about $180 more.

http://shop.thearmoury.com/us/categories/footwear/carmina-uetam-80285-loafer-suede-natural

http://shop.carminashoemaker.com/articulo.asp?idarticulo=4320584

Thanks

 

They are the same shoe.

 

Keep in mind, as we get this question every so often, that the price difference is from multiple factors, the most important being the taxes & duties that you will most likely be hit with when importing them (I've seen this as high as 16% before).  There is also the price of shipping which will be higher from Carmina's webstore and also the fact that returns will be very difficult.  I understand that's more of a convenience factor and not price factor, but it's important nonetheless.

 

Lastly, the recent drop of the Euro plays a fairly large factor.

 

Hope that helps.  Let me know if you need sizing information, I'm happy to help.

 

Jeff

post #5 of 17

ssup jeff

post #6 of 17
Shipping is currently free from Carmina, and has been for 3 months now. US customs is 8%, it's in the regulations. it would still be cheaper at 40%. There's no way to justify it. Skoak is also over $200 less on their shoes than Armoury. Returns with both cost at most $35.
post #7 of 17

There is something to be said for convenience. And I suppose The Armoury is stuck with people window shopping and buying online, which isn't really cool. It is really helpful to be able to try on sizes and have ease of returns, and I never know when I do get hit with customs duties. So for shoes I could see how it justifies a higher price (so long as it isn't too high). I do like going into the shop and chatting up the guys too - it helps to learn and be able to touch/ feel the product. You can't do everything online; but it is good if you already know what you want of course.

 

That said, I always like to pay as little as possible for stuff - helps me buy more stuff. And for something like an Abbeyhorn brush, where I could buy it online direct, but it is at least 1.5x more expensive at The Armory (and comes with an annoying logo), I could take a pass.

post #8 of 17
Its mostly due to the currency since the EU/USD used to be more like 1.35(as high as 1.57). I believ Skoak sets their pricing in the local currency so its significantly cheaper now, but if the $US went back down cost would go up, and then factor in the fees and its pretty even. Assuming the Armoury is buying direct in EU currency they should theoretically be able to pass on the savings, but I wouldn't know. Carmina isn't helping their retailers by allowing this, and if I was one I'd reconsider carrying them in my store. IMO the cost difference was always more significant on the shell models.
post #9 of 17
A fair comment too. These are priced at a point in time I suppose. I feel for retailers who have to worry about fluctuations, and deal with Internet commentators ripping on them for gouging.

Not saying they aren't going. Just saying they have to deal with the comments...ha.
post #10 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iyor View Post

Its mostly due to the currency since the EU/USD used to be more like 1.35(as high as 1.57). I believ Skoak sets their pricing in the local currency so its significantly cheaper now, but if the $US went back down cost would go up, and then factor in the fees and its pretty even. Assuming the Armoury is buying direct in EU currency they should theoretically be able to pass on the savings, but I wouldn't know. Carmina isn't helping their retailers by allowing this, and if I was one I'd reconsider carrying them in my store. IMO the cost difference was always more significant on the shell models.

This pretty much nails it.  It happens with Japanese brands as well, to the point that a customer's loyalty to a particular retailer trumping the price difference, especially in the current retail climate, is very low.  I do it with some retailers with whom I have a longstanding relationship, but it makes it tough for the retailer, certainly.  I do think that the brand should offer prices that don't compete with their own retailers, but that's not my business decision to make.

 

One that thing you should remember - and I don't know if this is the case here - is that retailers are often locked into a specific exchange rate when they make their buying decisions.  When the currency fluctuates, as it did through 2014 to now, it can be hard for a retailer to make the necessary margins.  

 

All that said, I don't think that there is any issue with shopping for the best price.  Of course, "Showrooming" is a whole other phenomenon altogether, and imo, extremely dishonest.

post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iyor View Post

Its mostly due to the currency since the EU/USD used to be more like 1.35(as high as 1.57). I believ Skoak sets their pricing in the local currency so its significantly cheaper now, but if the $US went back down cost would go up, and then factor in the fees and its pretty even. Assuming the Armoury is buying direct in EU currency they should theoretically be able to pass on the savings, but I wouldn't know. Carmina isn't helping their retailers by allowing this, and if I was one I'd reconsider carrying them in my store. IMO the cost difference was always more significant on the shell models.

Very well said & I agree
post #12 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iyor View Post

Its mostly due to the currency since the EU/USD used to be more like 1.35(as high as 1.57). I believ Skoak sets their pricing in the local currency so its significantly cheaper now, but if the $US went back down cost would go up, and then factor in the fees and its pretty even. Assuming the Armoury is buying direct in EU currency they should theoretically be able to pass on the savings, but I wouldn't know. Carmina isn't helping their retailers by allowing this, and if I was one I'd reconsider carrying them in my store. IMO the cost difference was always more significant on the shell models.

I'm gonna comment in this thread because we were mentioned by name. AFAIK all Carmina retailers buys in €, there's a global wholesale list. So we're all competing on the same terms. There will always be fluctuations in currencies that makes a particular market more attractive than another. But in the long run it evens out. I know a lot of US retailers feels threatened by EU retailers at the moment, but just a little over a year ago the tables were turned. Now, I understand that some retailers bought stock back when the the USD was weak. And they feel they have to have maintain a pricing policy based on the wholesale price. To me this is making it very confusing for the client. We trade in SEK and we have bought at both high and low rates, but we maintain the same retail price regardless of when we bought the stock. Sometimes we gain on this, sometimes we lose. It all evens out in the end. And above all we are making it easy for the client.

Back when the USD was weak, we had clients walk in and try out their size and order from the US. Now it's the opposite. This will always happen, there's no stopping it. We have people ordering directly from Carmina after trying out their size with us, am I going to be a douche about it? No. It's just the way some people are, there's no use fighting that. The only thing I can do is to make sure that I have great make ups and an awesome team that provides crisp customer care, and currency exchange rates, customs rates and other retailers will be what it is and do what they do.
post #13 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaves View Post

I'm gonna comment in this thread because we were mentioned by name. AFAIK all Carmina retailers buys in €, there's a global wholesale list. So we're all competing on the same terms. There will always be fluctuations in currencies that makes a particular market more attractive than another. But in the long run it evens out. I know a lot of US retailers feels threatened by EU retailers at the moment, but just a little over a year ago the tables were turned. Now, I understand that some retailers bought stock back when the the USD was weak. And they feel they have to have maintain a pricing policy based on the wholesale price. To me this is making it very confusing for the client. We trade in SEK and we have bought at both high and low rates, but we maintain the same retail price regardless of when we bought the stock. Sometimes we gain on this, sometimes we lose. It all evens out in the end. And above all we are making it easy for the client.

Back when the USD was weak, we had clients walk in and try out their size and order from the US. Now it's the opposite. This will always happen, there's no stopping it. We have people ordering directly from Carmina after trying out their size with us, am I going to be a douche about it? No. It's just the way some people are, there's no use fighting that. The only thing I can do is to make sure that I have great make ups and an awesome team that provides crisp customer care, and currency exchange rates, customs rates and other retailers will be what it is and do what they do.

Thank you for the information leaves cleared lot of things up & thank you for wonderful service few dollar up or down is not a big deal but good service & helpfulness is very hard to find icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
post #14 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffArmoury View Post
 

 

They are the same shoe.

 

Keep in mind, as we get this question every so often, that the price difference is from multiple factors, the most important being the taxes & duties that you will most likely be hit with when importing them (I've seen this as high as 16% before).  There is also the price of shipping which will be higher from Carmina's webstore and also the fact that returns will be very difficult.  I understand that's more of a convenience factor and not price factor, but it's important nonetheless.

 

Lastly, the recent drop of the Euro plays a fairly large factor.

 

Hope that helps.  Let me know if you need sizing information, I'm happy to help.

 

Jeff


Hi Jeff,

 

I've heard that your brand receives shoes from a proprietary and narrower version of the Rain last. Is that true? I tried on a pair at your store once and found it extremely narrow, whilst everyone says Rain runs wide. 

 

Thanks for your input!

post #15 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by peppercorn78 View Post
 


Hi Jeff,

 

I've heard that your brand receives shoes from a proprietary and narrower version of the Rain last. Is that true? I tried on a pair at your store once and found it extremely narrow, whilst everyone says Rain runs wide. 

 

Thanks for your input!

 

Hey Pepper,

 

I think you may be confusing two of the lasts.  The Rain last is on the wider side of the lasts that Carmina offers.  It has a wider forefoot, a higher instep, and a relatively generous toe box.  The proprietary version we created, called the "Rain Modified" last, makes the forefoot at the ball of the foot a bit wider and tightens the heel slightly.

 

I think if you tried on a pair that was extremely narrow, you were probably trying the Simpson last.  That is one of Carmina's narrowest lasts and the shape is quite similar to the Rain last as they are both chiseled toes.

 

Let me know if that helps.

 

Jeff

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