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Shoe Antiquing - Page 8

post #106 of 308
Francisco -- Great job. I'm impressed and inspired.
post #107 of 308
Thread Starter 
EXCELLENT!!!!!!

Someone told me I gave away too much information !

Now that I see someone has started with this, a couple of points.....

1) did you condition between coats of dye?
2) this method as followed is good for a flat, one demensional finish.....they real key to antiquing is to be very judicious with dye (a highlighter) and spend more time with creams and waxes. There is a difference beween antiquing and dying and working the leather in the proper steps is that difference.
3) you should spend almost as much time on the welt and outsole edge as the upper....treat the same way - deglaze (especially the heel) and finish with polish and dye as a sealer.
4) if you used 6 coats of dye, I would have used 24 coats of polish and Renoveteur and Crema Alpina - just as a reference.
5) I like the effect of leaving the under lining the original color (under the perfs, and just delivered one in the same way), but if you want a classic effect, you must concentrate on this part as the first step....after you get into it it will be very difficult to get into the perfs and change the color without starting all over again.
6) Throw away the daubers that come with the dye.....use brushes. Badger hair brushes are the best, but you can go to any Ben Franklin and get a range of nice point and flat brushes that will do a much better job. I use sizes 5/8/10/11.
[IMG][/IMG]

7) You can also see from the pic above that I use a TINY amount of dye.....I use old cat food tins for my work and I only cover the bottom and rarely use that much....polish and cream are the key to making a good shoe better - and that's as much the point for me than just changing the color.
8) do you use brushes to apply the polish? I don't bother with the expensive polish brushes, I just get quantities of toothbrushes and I think I do ok.....stiff bristle.
9) ALWAYS apply wax AFTER HEATING IT!!!! Important point......I never scoop wax from a tin cold and apply - always heated until very soft.
10) Always work in as hot of an environment as possible.....sounds weird, but I go out of my way to either be in the sun or I use a kerosene heater to heat the room long before I start my work. I have moved my work from my seperate workshop into my florida room (glass enclosed) for the winter for this reason...I also rarely work at night, as sunlight will give you the best view of your progress. Again, probably a weird view of mine, but that's how I work. Also, if there is a lot of humidity in the area, I won't work....makes the finishes too cloudy.
11) A point I did not make in the beginning - I use Terpentine constantly in my work.....don't know why I omitted that, sorry. After waxing, a rag soaked (damp, not wet) in terpentine is a great finisher for the polish.

Ok, I think I basically told everything I know.....now you know as much as me!

ps - takes a lot longer than you thought, no? Especially if you add these steps, as I suggest anyone to do.

pss - If I hear you taking business from me, I will demand a cut !

Ron



Quote:
Originally Posted by Francisco D'Anconia View Post
Inspired by RIDER a tried my hand at antiquing myself. Before working on shoes I would really miss if I screwed them up, I've only worked on shoes that I will not regret losing.

My first effort was as pair of brown Bostonian monk straps I bought at a thrift store for $5. If you have not done something like this before, I highly recommend using a pair of nominal cost and no regret shoes for your first test bed.

My second was on a on a pair of CT branded CG Loakes. I intended to wear these after completion, but still didn't want to work on a really valuable pair of shoes.




^ The original shoes from above after taping the soles before any other work ^



^ The original shoes from the side after taping the soles before any other work ^

I noticed that when taping the bottoms as RIDER suggests, for me it worked to apply one piece of tape, then trip it to the sole with a razor blade, then add the next piece of tap, then trim....



^ View from above after removing the finish from the right shoe using Fiebing deglazer ^



^ View from the side after removing the finish from the right shoe using Fiebing deglazer ^



^ View from above after applying the first coat of Fiebing medium brown shoe dye ^

To keep things simple at this early stage in my shoe dyeing and antiquing efforts, I decided to use only medium brown dye



^ View from above after applying the three or four coats of Fiebing medium brown shoe dye ^



^ View from above after applying the sixth and last coat of Fiebing medium brown shoe dye ^





^ Views from above of the shoes after applying some Pecard Lethaer Dressing and simply polishing with Kiwi brown shoe polish. ^

The flash is pretty harsh in this photo and it over-emphasizes the contrast of the color in the brogueing perforations. I'll get some photo of the shoes in natural light to show more accurately what they look like to the human eye.

All in all IMHO I think these were pretty successful nephyte efforts. I'm definately reassured and eager to work towards feelling confident enough to work on a better pair of shoes and doing more with different dyes and polishes afterwards.

Thank you RIDER. There is no way I would have ever attempted this without the primer you posted earlier in this thread
post #108 of 308
Francisco - - nice job! you need to go back and fill in the brogueing holes with dye - see finished picture and notice the holes are still the old color. Use a tiny paintbrush and if there's polish in them already, you may need to get it out of there before dyeing.

definitely go put them in direct sunlight and post the new pictures because it's hard to see how well they came out in that light

Ron - - why terpentine? what does it do chemically to the polish?

nice additional instructions!


edit to ask Ron why he conditions in between dye layers - wouldn't the leather acept the dye better if it's a bit dry to begin with? I usually condition with one application of Lexol after stripping the initial polish off, then waiting an hour before dyeing. Then I condition after all the dyeing layers are applied and right before the polish process so that the polish seals in the conditioned leather.
post #109 of 308
RIDER:

First, allow me to thank you again for your generosity with trade secrets I'm certain you developed through long hours of personal pursuit and experimentation. Second, allow me to thank you for reviewing my work and remarking on it.

Responding to your questions and suggestions below:

"¢\tI did not condition between dye coats. I gather that I should. Following-up on that suggestion:

o\tWhat should I use as a conditioner?

o\tHow long after I finish the dye coat should I wait to let it dry and then apply the conditioner?

o\tHow long after finishing a coat of conditioner should I wait to start the next coat of dye?

"¢\tI see what you mean about the difference between a one color dimensional finish. I'm going to have to develop more familiarity with creams. I did notice, however, that application of the dye over irregularities in the upper left by the deglazing adds a mottled and "antiqued" appearance. It was more pronounced on the first pair of Bostonians I worked on. Some is evident on these Loake semi-brogues, but not as much and not in the harsh contrasty light in these photos.

"¢\tI did not focus on deglazing the welt, side of the sole, or the heel. I'll do that on my next job.

o\tShould I dye those components along with the upper and then polish? Or should I reverse the sequence, polishing first, and then dyeing as a sealer? I'm a bit obtuse so please forgive me for being confused by that part of your suggestion #3.

"¢\tWould you suggest sources for Renoveteur and Crema Alpina? I'm sure other threads identify them but I'm succumbing to indolence.

"¢\tI wish I had meant to preserve the original color on the underlining and the interior of the perfs. This is sort of a new Coke to Coke Classis moment for me. I actually did start with those parts on each coat of dye. I should also have mentioned that I used an artists paintbrush to dye those areas in an effort to work the dye down into the underlining and perf interiors. They did not absorb the dye as thoroughly and their color is lighter than the rest of the upper. It looks even lighter under the contrast of the flash from my camera too.

"¢\tGreat suggestion on using tooth brushes for applying polish. Right now I use shoe polish brushes. But I only have two for the tow colors I usually use. One for black polish and one for brown. As I follow your instructions and broaden my polish colors and compositions, I'll use tooth brushes.

"¢\tRegarding tooth brushes, I did like using them to apply the deglazer.

"¢\tRegarding wax:

o\tI have not used wax. I assume you're referring to shoe polishing wax. Any particular brands or colors you like to use frequently?

o\tHow do you heat your wax before applying it to a shoe? Place a tin over a candle? Microwave? Put it in direct summertime sunlight?

"¢\tI see your point about working during the day in good natural light. My interest in photography has certainly taught me that indirect natural light is best (like daylight that comes through a north facing window or through a layer of clouds on an overcast day). Unfortunately I have to work in my dark and cool basement at night under an incandesant that produces hard, contrasty, light and harsh shadows. That is just the only place I have available. I wish my day job allowed me to work in daylight during the week and SWMBO and my son spared me the time to do it on the weekend.

"¢\tThanks for suggesting turpentine. I'll apply it after waxing. At what other points in your workflow do you apply turpentine?

"¢\tYes, it takes a long time. I knew it would take me a long time. I took about three to four days for each pair of shoes spending 90-180 per day working on the shoes. And that is without the intense polishing regimen and other steps you suggest. This is very difficult, but very rewarding. I certainly don't recommend it for someone who does not have a lot of patience for spending their time and enduring their own ignorance and mistakes.

"¢\tDon't worry about me taking any business from you. I'm not doing this kind of work for anyone else. It's too much work. I'm a dilettante; I'll leave the for hire work to professionals like you. That's where it should go.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RIDER View Post
EXCELLENT!!!!!!

Someone told me I gave away too much information !

Now that I see someone has started with this, a couple of points.....

1) did you condition between coats of dye?
2) this method as followed is good for a flat, one demensional finish.....they real key to antiquing is to be very judicious with dye (a highlighter) and spend more time with creams and waxes. There is a difference beween antiquing and dying and working the leather in the proper steps is that difference.
3) you should spend almost as much time on the welt and outsole edge as the upper....treat the same way - deglaze (especially the heel) and finish with polish and dye as a sealer.
4) if you used 6 coats of dye, I would have used 24 coats of polish and Renoveteur and Crema Alpina - just as a reference.
5) I like the effect of leaving the under lining the original color (under the perfs, and just delivered one in the same way), but if you want a classic effect, you must concentrate on this part as the first step....after you get into it it will be very difficult to get into the perfs and change the color without starting all over again.
6) Throw away the daubers that come with the dye.....use brushes. Badger hair brushes are the best, but you can go to any Ben Franklin and get a range of nice point and flat brushes that will do a much better job. I use sizes 5/8/10/11.
[IMG][/IMG]

7) You can also see from the pic above that I use a TINY amount of dye.....I use old cat food tins for my work and I only cover the bottom and rarely use that much....polish and cream are the key to making a good shoe better - and that's as much the point for me than just changing the color.
8) do you use brushes to apply the polish? I don't bother with the expensive polish brushes, I just get quantities of toothbrushes and I think I do ok.....stiff bristle.
9) ALWAYS apply wax AFTER HEATING IT!!!! Important point......I never scoop wax from a tin cold and apply - always heated until very soft.
10) Always work in as hot of an environment as possible.....sounds weird, but I go out of my way to either be in the sun or I use a kerosene heater to heat the room long before I start my work. I have moved my work from my seperate workshop into my florida room (glass enclosed) for the winter for this reason...I also rarely work at night, as sunlight will give you the best view of your progress. Again, probably a weird view of mine, but that's how I work. Also, if there is a lot of humidity in the area, I won't work....makes the finishes too cloudy.
11) A point I did not make in the beginning - I use Terpentine constantly in my work.....don't know why I omitted that, sorry. After waxing, a rag soaked (damp, not wet) in terpentine is a great finisher for the polish.

Ok, I think I basically told everything I know.....now you know as much as me!

ps - takes a lot longer than you thought, no? Especially if you add these steps, as I suggest anyone to do.

pss - If I hear you taking business from me, I will demand a cut !

Ron
post #110 of 308
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francisco D'Anconia View Post
RIDER:

First, allow me to thank you again for your generosity with trade secrets I'm certain you developed through long hours of personal pursuit and experimentation. Second, allow me to thank you for reviewing my work and remarking on it.

Responding to your questions and suggestions below:

"¢\tI did not condition between dye coats. I gather that I should. Following-up on that suggestion:

o\tWhat should I use as a conditioner?

o\tHow long after I finish the dye coat should I wait to let it dry and then apply the conditioner?

o\tHow long after finishing a coat of conditioner should I wait to start the next coat of dye?

"¢\tI see what you mean about the difference between a one color dimensional finish. I'm going to have to develop more familiarity with creams. I did notice, however, that application of the dye over irregularities in the upper left by the deglazing adds a mottled and "antiqued" appearance. It was more pronounced on the first pair of Bostonians I worked on. Some is evident on these Loake semi-brogues, but not as much and not in the harsh contrasty light in these photos.

"¢\tI did not focus on deglazing the welt, side of the sole, or the heel. I'll do that on my next job.

o\tShould I dye those components along with the upper and then polish? Or should I reverse the sequence, polishing first, and then dyeing as a sealer? I'm a bit obtuse so please forgive me for being confused by that part of your suggestion #3.

"¢\tWould you suggest sources for Renoveteur and Crema Alpina? I'm sure other threads identify them but I'm succumbing to indolence.

"¢\tI wish I had meant to preserve the original color on the underlining and the interior of the perfs. This is sort of a new Coke to Coke Classis moment for me. I actually did start with those parts on each coat of dye. I should also have mentioned that I used an artists paintbrush to dye those areas in an effort to work the dye down into the underlining and perf interiors. They did not absorb the dye as thoroughly and their color is lighter than the rest of the upper. It looks even lighter under the contrast of the flash from my camera too.

"¢\tGreat suggestion on using tooth brushes for applying polish. Right now I use shoe polish brushes. But I only have two for the tow colors I usually use. One for black polish and one for brown. As I follow your instructions and broaden my polish colors and compositions, I'll use tooth brushes.

"¢\tRegarding tooth brushes, I did like using them to apply the deglazer.

"¢\tRegarding wax:

o\tI have not used wax. I assume you're referring to shoe polishing wax. Any particular brands or colors you like to use frequently?

o\tHow do you heat your wax before applying it to a shoe? Place a tin over a candle? Microwave? Put it in direct summertime sunlight?

"¢\tI see your point about working during the day in good natural light. My interest in photography has certainly taught me that indirect natural light is best (like daylight that comes through a north facing window or through a layer of clouds on an overcast day). Unfortunately I have to work in my dark and cool basement at night under an incandesant that produces hard, contrasty, light and harsh shadows. That is just the only place I have available. I wish my day job allowed me to work in daylight during the week and SWMBO and my son spared me the time to do it on the weekend.

"¢\tThanks for suggesting turpentine. I'll apply it after waxing. At what other points in your workflow do you apply turpentine?

"¢\tYes, it takes a long time. I knew it would take me a long time. I took about three to four days for each pair of shoes spending 90-180 per day working on the shoes. And that is without the intense polishing regimen and other steps you suggest. This is very difficult, but very rewarding. I certainly don't recommend it for someone who does not have a lot of patience for spending their time and enduring their own ignorance and mistakes.

"¢\tDon't worry about me taking any business from you. I'm not doing this kind of work for anyone else. It's too much work. I'm a dilettante; I'll leave the for hire work to professionals like you. That's where it should go.


Sorry for the late reply....been in NYC all week working.

#1) For conditioner, I use both Renoveteur and Crema Alpina
#2) as little as 5 minutes, as long as the next day....just depends on what your plan is with each coat.
#3) No need to wait to continue to color or dye
#4) I save the soles for last.......strip/dye/polish/condition
#5) Franco's is the only source I know of for the products I use....unless you want to buy a gross from Europe.....and register with the EPA.
#6) I like Saphir, and also use Lincoln now and again....I use ALOT of colors.
#7) This time of year I put the wax tins/jars on top of the kerosene heater I use.....hot summer days sunlight does the trick and other times I use a little heating flame that came with a fondue pot.
#8) I use terpentine at all different points; you just have to get a handle on what/how it works for you.
#9) One member here emailed me and said it was like those woodworking shows on PBS.....looks real easy and faast - until you get into it. This actually isn't so hard, just takes time and some patience.

Keep the pics coming as you go along!

RR
post #111 of 308
Your workmanship is excellent Ron.thank you so much for taking so much time to write everything down,post pictures and respond to so many questions.I seriously never knew such things were possible with shoes and boots.
post #112 of 308
-5
post #113 of 308
Rider, what advice would you give concerning changing the color of my Alden Monk Strap Oxford in dark tan to a medium brown?

http://www.aldenshop.com/DrawOneShoe.asp?CategoryID=131

I do not want to dye the shoe. However, I was wondering if it is possible to use a combination of creams and waxes to change a color from dark tan to medium brown? I know that this solution is not permanent. Do you think that 15 coats of medium brown cream along with 6 or more coats of wax would make a significant change in the color? Or, rather, would it simply muddy the dark tan complexion of the shoe? Any help would greatly appreciated.
post #114 of 308
this reminds me of weathering on model tanks, cool
post #115 of 308
+5
post #116 of 308
Thank you so much Ron for the tutorial. I had a hard time getting a non-streaky finish with the brushes, but other than that I thought it was pretty straightfoward, albeit very labor and time consuming. Any advice on how to apply the dye for a more even, mottled appearance than a streaky brush type?

Your advice regarding the polishes was spot on. I found I could almost rub out alot of the streaky dye appearance by polishing 4 or 5 times between coats, and it helped to enhance the texture of the finish. I also used Lincoln dye preparer between coats to strip the polish, rather than turpentine although I'm sure they are very similar.

Anyhow, my first attempt (shoe w/o the laces):

post #117 of 308
Beautiful work! My compliments.
post #118 of 308
Anyhow, my first attempt (shoe w/o the laces):

[/quote]

It looks great, i'm tryin to get some magli's in that color.
post #119 of 308
Thread Starter 
haven't fallen off the face, or anything....just crazy busy.

A pair from last weekends work....really liked these:

[IMG][/IMG]


ended as:

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
post #120 of 308
What would be the best way to develop a patina without the antiquing process? i.e., how to take care of the shoes besides just wearing them?
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