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Eat. Bespoke. Love (my Italian trip report) - Page 12

post #166 of 221
Hopefully it's Tofani, he's the only one that's really impressed so far.
post #167 of 221
@WeakMondayI finally read sleevehead's guide on Sicilian tailors. It was insightful, any plans on using Arrigo?
post #168 of 221
Thread Starter 

Possibly... the Messina tailors all seem pretty good... it's just annoying getting there.

post #169 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedwards View Post

im confused.

If you have found an Italian tailor (lazy generalisation, but let's just read that as 'soft tailoring' for ease) whose given you a good result.... What is the reason to try new Italian tailors on a further trip?

Otherwise all the pattern and many fittings are in vain surely.

I could understand if you said you were now about to try huntsman let's say.

None of my business of course, just curious.


I suggest you a double breasted from Gianni Volpe and a 3 buttons single breasted from Mimmo Pirozzi.

Volpe's DB are great,superb. and Pirozzi is a insuperate master in make 3 buttons.

post #170 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by carpu65 View Post
 


I suggest you a double breasted from Gianni Volpe and a 3 buttons single breasted from Mimmo Pirozzi.

Volpe's DB are great,superb. and Pirozzi is a insuperate master in make 3 buttons.

 

This can´t be for real on the Pirozzi “mastering”, everything I see from him has tons of defects and fit issues.  I totally disagree omho.

post #171 of 221
Thread Starter 

Maybe you could ask Teacher Pirozzi to give you some lessons on proper fit and make.

post #172 of 221

Everything "Gianni Cerruti" endorses automatically seems suspicious.

post #173 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeakMonday View Post
 

Maybe you could ask Teacher Pirozzi to give you some lessons on proper fit and make.

 

Thanks for the tip, maybe he (who has lost almost all his Neapolitan customers due to things as the following and others I inspected personally on some Italian Gentlemen clubs I frequent., so is desperately asking for internet fake promoting (shilling) that I properly unmask.

 

Now some examples of “proper fit and make"

 

Absolutely poor sleeve, even for CQ low standarts would be an example of bad fit.

 

 One of the worst sleeves I have ever seen, the client is you?

 

Corresponds to CQ image number 8

 

Poor sleeves, not only the diameter is maybe double than the ideal, maybe is ok for Silvester Stallone or a bodybuilder, sure not for the next, also corresponds to BAD FIT CQ IMAGE NUMBER 6

 

When a “tailor” does big armholes and big sleeveheads is because with that sleeve he can “ fit” maybe all his clients, as he lacks of the skill to draft and calculate a proper sleeve correctly done to the real measure of his client, instead of what it seems, to use the same hanged on the wall block pattern for everybody. This dirty trick is done daily by the Madrid untailors as well, whose cut style is pretty similar to this Pirozzi “master” tailor.

 

ABSOLUTELY POOR FITTED TROUSER, NOT ONLY DOES WRINKLES ON THE BOX, BETWEEN THE LEGS, BUT THE PROPORTIONS ON DIMINISHING THE LEGS ARE BAD.

 

 

SLEEVE ABERRATION, TOTAL ABERRATION, THIS CORRESPONDS TO IMAGES 2, 4,  AND 8. ( ALMOST ALL THE ONES IN GREY)

 

 

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 85

 

 

This was sent to me years ago by the one I can´t name to try to shill- hook me with this “tailor" of Pirozzi as on Naples everybody on the business knows he asked tons of tailors to make a joint for internet promotion against cash or free garments. He was kicked out of several reputable tailors and it seems he found what he was looking for...

 

 

Great lessons of fitting and making, will hang on my wall as fit aberrations to try to avoid this failures. Thanks for the lesson of another “master” .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stugotes View Post
 

Everything "Gianni Cerruti" endorses automatically seems suspicious.

 

+20000, not only the worst taste ever, but the joint is expossed before.


Edited by SartodiNapoli - 2/18/16 at 8:39am
post #174 of 221
Sartoridinapoli - I agree that sleeve divots are a sign of problematic tailoring, but not when the wearer's arm is bent at the elbow. When the arm is bent, the sleeve will divot. That is just the difference between the way a suit fits on a mannequin and the way a suit fits in real life.
post #175 of 221

To help the discussion,this is a Pirozzi single breasted:

 

 

Gianni Volpe double breasted:

 

post #176 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

Sartoridinapoli - I agree that sleeve divots are a sign of problematic tailoring, but not when the wearer's arm is bent at the elbow. When the arm is bent, the sleeve will divot. That is just the difference between the way a suit fits on a mannequin and the way a suit fits in real life.

 

I know, but those I exposed are bad even on a mannequin and are even worse on any position, on a good jacket those deep issues are not seen this way, this mistake is due mainly due to excess of fabric on the sleeves; poor tailoring. Using the same sleeve pattern for everyone.

 

You won´t see that screwed sleeves on any good jacket.

 

Note the difference, this wrinkles do look natural drape and look natural, Pirozzi´s look ugly and unnatural.

 

*

 

 

BAD SLEEVES AS PIROZZI;

 

Bad sleeves, Madrid untailoring with same defec

 

tive sleeves as Pirozzi;

 

GOOD TAILORING WHEN( ON THE CONTRARY AS YOU ARE SAYING) ARE BENT AT THE ELBOW,

 

NOTE A NATURAL SOFT PERFECT FITTED JACKET ( Note, got any idea about this man, tailor etc, is only one of the few good fit and good example pics I own, since I only see bad examples all the time, pretty sad, yes)

post #177 of 221
^ You may not like the fullness in the arm on the Pirozzi suits but that is undoubtedly a stylistic decision to have a greater amount of fullness in the arm as opposed to a tailoring mistake. That is choice. You don't like it and you don't think it looks good, but others do. It isn't my style, but you are just saying that the arm is too full for your taste.
post #178 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

^ You may not like the fullness in the arm on the Pirozzi suits but that is undoubtedly a stylistic decision to have a greater amount of fullness in the arm as opposed to a tailoring mistake. That is choice. You don't like it and you don't think it looks good, but others do. It isn't my style, but you are just saying that the arm is too full for your taste.

 

That is (not trying to offense by any way), just telling what heard as excuse given when usually non Italian clients( since this understands most of the time way more than others, might due to the Italian suit culture) came with awful suits to us and when asked how he accepted such a bad thing, the client who usually knows nothing about bad/good fit, tells, is what the “tailor” said fitted better on me. ( Trousers where 3 people do fit on it, not talking about ridiculous pittiesque slim trousers, but a proportioned one).

 

Apart of stylistically options, all them (in theory) valid, the difference between a good tailor and a bad one, is that the bad one delivers things that look ugly on the client, while the client has any idea about if a normal or huge sleeve as this ones, would look better or worse on him.

 

No matter how good sewn the internal pockets and buttonholes are sewn (as per example Madrid ones do selfsay), if the overall look wearing it is ridiculous or bad, as per example, again this;

 

I am pretty sure, the client, would have liked a jacket than gave an elegant, proportioned look on him, instead of this that if per example he was a door by door seller of insurances, would give any trust by wearing that mistake as per example, any tailor would deliver today for a normal client a 1940´s trouser (unless comissioned specifically)

 

He would have prefered another thing if the client  would have any idea about tailoring. (Now as he has to find online clients for him or his next business, he would say he asked specifically a sleeve as that, yes... I am pretty sure... )

 

This is like going to a restaurant, asking for a good tasting steak and got a completely burnt charcoal. Yes, the cook can of course deliver it that way, but

you know the rest...  the client would complaint inmediately, on tailoring as just a few nowadays got a clue about, some tailors do abuse and deliver things that are not even mediocre, specially to foreign clients who believe know everything but... those are the prefered clients of this kind of “tailors”.

 

Why he did not delivered an at least ok and decent jacket as the same tailor delivered for a client who seems what he is asking for? Too lazy maybe?

 

 

DECENT SUIT ( AT LEAST THE MINIMUN THAT A PROPER TAILOR HAS TO DELIVER);

 

 

 

UNDECENT FAST JOB TO GET FAST CASH, WHAT A SLEEVE, COMPARE EVEN THE CUFFS, ON THE PRIOR HAVE BEEN MORE OR LESS CALCULATED TO THE WRIST, ON THE NEXT HE HAS USED A RANDOM SIZE AS THE TAILOR KNEW PERFECTLY THIS CLIENT GOT ANY IDEA AND WILL PAY CLEAN AND FAST (and even is trying to find him more client-victims), the perfect client for this people. 

 

post #179 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by SartodiNapoli View Post


Apart of stylistically options, all them (in theory) valid, the difference between a good tailor and a bad one, is that the bad one delivers things that look ugly on the client, while the client has any idea about if a normal or huge sleeve as this ones, would look better or worse on him.

No - you are totally missing the point of bespoke clothing. Stylistic choices (such as the amount of drape, the fullness of the suit, the shape of the shoulders) are different from tailoring issues. Whether or not a client looks ugly is a stylistic viewpoint. I can tell you that every neapolitan suit I've ever worn, to me,looks bad on me. That includes bespoke suits, as well as from brands like Kiton, which I think you find to be pretty excellent. Anderson Sheppard looks awful on me. That doesn't mean that they are badly tailored. It just means that I don't like the way they look on me. But all the decisions made in tailoring those suits were decisions that were made by an expert tailor with a viewpoint on how I should look in his suit. You can post all the pictures you want of things that you like and don't like. And you can try to explain your likes and dislikes in terms of good and bad tailoring. But it isn't that. If it accurately reflects the maker's intentions then it isn't a mistake. It is a choice.
post #180 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post


No - you are totally missing the point of bespoke clothing. Stylistic choices (such as the amount of drape, the fullness of the suit, the shape of the shoulders) are different from tailoring issues. Whether or not a client looks ugly is a stylistic viewpoint. I can tell you that every neapolitan suit I've ever worn, to me,looks bad on me. That includes bespoke suits, as well as from brands like Kiton, which I think you find to be pretty excellent. Anderson Sheppard looks awful on me. That doesn't mean that they are badly tailored. It just means that I don't like the way they look on me. But all the decisions made in tailoring those suits were decisions that were made by an expert tailor with a viewpoint on how I should look in his suit. You can post all the pictures you want of things that you like and don't like. And you can try to explain your likes and dislikes in terms of good and bad tailoring. But it isn't that. If it accurately reflects the maker's intentions then it isn't a mistake. It is a choice.

 

As I said,

 

Did the tailor explained all the possible “choices” as you call it as on a test to his client?  Per example for beginners, the different trouser cuff widths, the different pleats, why a DB is not a good option for the first commision, different interlinings, linings, shoulders, sleeves, etc?

 

I do not think so, he just made a fastly made garment before the usual tourist cruise leave Naples. 

 

What you described on your post is not bespoke tailoring, as the client is not spoking about almost anything but the fabric and overall cut just on DB or 2,5 button cut, I would call it “tyrannical” tailoring, since the “tailor” is delivering what he desires and specially what is faster and cheaper for him to make.

 

Example for newcomers; I got 5000 euros and go to an used car seller (bad example since is either plenty of scammers, I know)

 

client bespokes; I want a fast car to get girls on the door of the disco, I am 18, I only want to get girls.

Cars there are, all cost 5000e

 

1 Mustang muscle car with nitro add on and chromed wells and engine

2  Citroen 50 HP diesel, economic, fuel saver but mothers car to go Wallmart or pick up the kids from school (, no eye cathching, so bad option for him)

3  BMW Z4 twoseater

 

Seller fools the customer and gets rid of the Citroen he bought for 1500 on a trade already knowing was a bad looking thing for his client.  Do you really believe this Pirozzi didn´t know that sleeve is not good looking for him even is a “style” option? Then why delivered a good looking one to an expert and this fast rag to a tourist who also came shilled by the one we know?

 

C´mon...

 

Daily used to watch better skilled people on this art, here a videoexample;

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTc-zwuimIc

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fthY95wByo0

 

And now the bespoke client after he realiced and what I always try to avoid helping people.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08n5lhRHIqs

 

:lol: 


Edited by SartodiNapoli - 2/18/16 at 11:23am
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