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ethan's Musing on the Near East - Page 66

post #976 of 2698
Nothing but if people can live together in Syria, I don't understand why they can't elsewhere.
post #977 of 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirReveller View Post


If the Saudi and Bahrain sheiks were dropping barrel bombs on dissenting neighborhoods (and btw this isnt collateral damage in Assad's case vs islamist combatants, as you posit, it's indiscriminate terror, and yes Im aware of Dresden etc ad nauseaum) then there might be serious pressure among the American public to dump them as allies.


Heres the difference and why i disagree.

For example: Yemen. Saudis have bombed the shit out of that country for monthes now, they even bombed the graves of the houthis dead leaders. The United States is supplying their weapons. Whatever you think of Houthis, i doubt theyre any worse than alqaeda and isis in anyones eyes.

Another example: Before this war, the biggest act of brutality by the syrian regime was under Hafez Assad in the 80s when he bombed the islamic brotherhood. Yet after that the united states delt with him and in Taef gave him Lebanon.

When Saddam was gassing civilians in the 80s, he was the united states' ally and they were arming him because he was fighting Iran.



And the only reason why Saudi Arabia isnt bombing its civilians is that noone (example: Iran) is sending weapons and foreign fighters to Saudi Arabia. And noone did that to Bahrain. And if that happens their allies including the US will support them just like they did in Yemen, and just like they did with the others.


The public indignation comes after the decision to attach a regime comes up, not before. Notice how every military campaign was preceded with a heavy media one. This is especially true in arab countries.
post #978 of 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

This is absurd and false. I have met Jewish refugees from Syria and Lebanon. Emigration was voluntary to the extent leaving when your synagogues and houses are set on fire and you are being beaten in the streets is voluntary. There are dozens of books written, with great detail.
Muslim benevolence to non-Muslims in their midst is fickle and temporary and punctuated by outbreaks of psychotic communal violence. While pretending the Jews were not viciously abused and persecuted might help you delude yourself into thinking Christians may hang on in the Middle East for a few more years, it is a dangerous delusion. You and your family should leave. Or at least run to the Maronite hills where you can hang on a little longer.

Edit: Because I have an interest in the Aleppo Codex (a fascinating but not really relevant story), I happen to know about this in some detail - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_Anti-Jewish_riots_in_Aleppo


I was referring to the Assad regime which didnt exist in 1947, israel and everything that happend then is another discussion which is irrelevant to the point i was making.
post #979 of 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by alan View Post

Heres the difference and why i disagree.

For example: Yemen. Saudis have bombed the shit out of that country for monthes now, they even bombed the graves of the houthis dead leaders. The United States is supplying their weapons. Whatever you think of Houthis, i doubt theyre any worse than alqaeda and isis in anyones eyes.

Another example: Before this war, the biggest act of brutality by the syrian regime was under Hafez Assad in the 80s when he bombed the islamic brotherhood. Yet after that the united states delt with him and in Taef gave him Lebanon.

When Saddam was gassing civilians in the 80s, he was the united states' ally and they were arming him because he was fighting Iran.



And the only reason why Saudi Arabia isnt bombing its civilians is that noone (example: Iran) is sending weapons and foreign fighters to Saudi Arabia. And noone did that to Bahrain. And if that happens their allies including the US will support them just like they did in Yemen, and just like they did with the others.


The public indignation comes after the decision to attach a regime comes up, not before. Notice how every military campaign was preceded with a heavy media one. This is especially true in arab countries.

Lots of Dems and even others in the States dislike the Saudi alliance. Their entire society's repressive sexist intolerant ideals running counter to our own is fairly well known in the US, at least among the educated classes that even give a hoot about this stuff. More to the point, I am skeptical that the Saudis could hit 350ish000 killed as Assad has and remain an ally.

BTW Saddam was totally useful against Iran. A nonnuclear narcissist dickhead who likes money and palaces? You can deal with a guy like that. A nuclear mullah theocrat? Much worse.

W never should have taken him out. The Shia power vacuum drastically altered the balance of power in the region. ISIS is merely the Sunni reaction to powerlessness.
post #980 of 2698
Thread Starter 

Iran never wanted a bomb. If Iran got a bomb then the Gulfies get a bomb and everything escalates to a nuclear crisis. Iran is much better off playing it's low-level proxy game and we gave them exactly what they wanted. The whole thing was foolish. John Kerry is a silly man and this will blow up in everyone's face.

post #981 of 2698
Forgive me....but isnt it well documented Iran (basically surrounded by enemies) has been working on a bomb for some time?
post #982 of 2698
Thread Starter 

No, it's not. A bomb for Iran would be a mistake. Unlike North Korea, Iran wants to engage with the world. 

post #983 of 2698
Whats your problem with the world engaging with Iran then, ethan?

Besides, whats going on now is probably US and Israel's wet dream, or it should be.

Sunnis and shiites basically fighting eachother until death everywhere. What would breaking Iran do? Create a sunni empire? And whenever you need to trim some radicals you ccould now use Iran and its proxies.
post #984 of 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirReveller View Post

Lots of Dems and even others in the States dislike the Saudi alliance. Their entire society's repressive sexist intolerant ideals running counter to our own is fairly well known in the US, at least among the educated classes that even give a hoot about this stuff. More to the point, I am skeptical that the Saudis could hit 350ish000 killed as Assad has and remain an ally.

BTW Saddam was totally useful against Iran. A nonnuclear narcissist dickhead who likes money and palaces? You can deal with a guy like that. A nuclear mullah theocrat? Much worse.

W never should have taken him out. The Shia power vacuum drastically altered the balance of power in the region. ISIS is merely the Sunni reaction to powerlessness.

I agree. Even though in theory the shia gaining power and creating a balance against sunnis should be a good thing, i was against the removal of Saddam. Besides, Iraq and what happened to minorities and isis gaining power is another blueprint for what would happen to Syria.

Change should come from within however long it takes. Ironically if he hadnt been pumped full of weapons in the 80s maybe it wouldve come sooner.
post #985 of 2698
Thread Starter 

Alan did you listen to this new Zawahiri tape? I haven't had a chance but apparently he says that killing "crusaders,  shiites, and secularists" is a bigger matter than the illegitimate caliphate and one they could work with ISIS on. 

 

Where's Patreaus now saying we should work with AQ? Fucking moron. 

post #986 of 2698
I havent . all i saw was the headline "zawahiri does not recognize baghdadi's caliphate". I dont follow daily news in detail anymore, too depressing. Cant even find a link to the tape
post #987 of 2698
Thread Starter 

Who knows how a statement like that could break. Does Nusra take it and say fuck you AQ or do they take it and say OK we'll work with ISIS fuck you Ahrar. I feel like the former is more likely. 

post #988 of 2698
Hell has officially frozen over the Russia hopes the US will join them in fighting IS.
post #989 of 2698
Im pretty happy about the russian troops thing. I hope it at the very least draws a red line around the key regime areas that remain.
post #990 of 2698
Why does everyone want to kill Jews? I mean seriously, what the fuck?
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