Originally Posted by nootje
Which is why I hope that this mass migration will finally trigger a policy debate on how we structure our welfare states. The times that our nations could afford to give anyone a basic income that couldn't or wouldn't work are over, we could only do that due to a demographic fluke and resources that were found that we are now on the verge of exhausting. If you can't work, fine we'll support you to the point that you can live a dignified life. If you can contribute in any meaningful way, get to work, any work, and you get only the minimal amount of support so you won't starve.
The same way with the migrant debates, its utterly insane that we keep those people locked up, only to provide them with housing and government subsidies after a long administrative process. Given the demographics in Europe we need the workers (we didn't have the steady influx of mexicans to fill up the gap behind the boomer generation). So let them stay, force them through language school and if they don't know a trade, teach them one. The german employers federation proposed exactly that some months ago...
And at the same time this shitstorm might finally force our politicians to see that we can't keep cutting our military budgets without far reaching integration of the armed forces in Europe. The eastern border with russia demands a general and coherent effort. The same with the mediterranean, we should be able to project enough force to engage the countries in the north of Africa. Not to invade them, but enough to intervene to prevent a disintegration of the regime there. Now its Syria that is causing this influx of migrants. From what I hear Libya is well on its way to become the next Syria if we don't do something, and libya will really be pandoras box.
It has never been sustainable to support people who don't want to work and never will be, people who can't deserve help, so they can live a respectable life. Sadly most of the immigrants on early retirement are about as sick or less than you and I.
Around here we have 1.3m private sector worker (including government supported industries like wind), 1m government workers and the rest of the 5.5m are on some sort of government funded pay (pension, student pay, wellfare etc.).
It's essentially 23% of the public who are funding the rest of the nations wages and spending including school, hospitals etc.. with the amount of refugees coming in who need housing, schooling and health care are society will tumble and is already well on the way, as the money and homes need to come from somewhere, which is currently student housing.
The problem at least here, which made Ethan call me a Fascist
, is that our government has made us uncompetitive, so all our production jobs have been exported to Asia and EE, so there are no jobs to give the uneducated ones, so.....
Libya has been a problem for a loooooooong time, as it's the source of all of the african boat immigrant, who are 90% wellfare tourists. I have heard of people who have jobs, who flee to get a better paying job, there was even a documentary about 5 from Cameron who thought they could go to France and become pro footballers, while being illegals.
We are also getting a lot of Nigerians and Nigerian is the worlds 3rd biggest consumer of champagne and a large growth economy, so I don't understand why. Asia was in the same place as Africa 30 years ago, the only difference is that Asia found away out Africa chose to keep on their asses and now they are relying on Chinese investments. I also read that we are getting Indonesian, Pakistani refugees etc. at the moment as well, WTF are they running from.
The european countries should follow the dutch immigration model and tell people they have 3 years to become fluent and force them to see a video of gays kissing etc., so they know what they are going into.
Originally Posted by ethanm
Yes and the current crisis is because many have given up on the war ever being solved. All of the Syrians I know say the same thing, we saw what the US did in Libya and we figured we'd wait in Lebanon, Turkey, Jordan etc until then. Now that t's clear that is never going to happen they are seeking more permanent solutions.
I personally think it's too soon to give up, a lot of Europe (Including Denmark) was occupied by Nazi Germany for 5 years during the 40's. Only the people who needed to flee fled, the rest stayed and put up a fight. They should do the same if they love their country, if all of the 4 million'ish refugees did that the opposition wouldn't have a chance.