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ethan's Musing on the Near East - Page 23

post #331 of 2744
Yeah... I think secular liberals are probably the worst kind of people to fight religious terrorists.
post #332 of 2744
Thread Starter 




But guys... airstrikes don't do anything. :rolleyes:

post #333 of 2744
Thread Starter 

That feeling when you're a right wing Christian American who went to Syria and found out that the YPG are atheist leftists.



post #334 of 2744
hate it when that happens
post #335 of 2744
Bomb killed a few dozens today in Al-Qubbah, perhaps Libya might stop simmering and start boiling over.
post #336 of 2744
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by Eason View Post

Bomb killed a few dozens today in Al-Qubbah, perhaps Libya might stop simmering and start boiling over.

Lots of reports of Libyans isis fighters going home too. It's definitely going to be getting uglier there.
post #337 of 2744
Thread Starter 

After Hadi escaped from his home yesterday...


Yemen goes up a couple of notches on instability scale. Rival govt being setup by Hadi in Aden, calls Army to obey him. Could get real ugly

post #338 of 2744
I just re-discovered this article from last year. I think it remains as relevant now as it was then:


"No one paradigm or one theory can explain what went wrong in the Arab world in the last century. There is no obvious set of reasons for the colossal failures of all the ideologies and political movements that swept the Arab region: Arab nationalism, in its Baathist and Nasserite forms; various Islamist movements; Arab socialism; the rentier state and rapacious monopolies, leaving in their wake a string of broken societies. No one theory can explain the marginalization of Egypt, once the center of political and cultural gravity in the Arab East, and its brief and tumultuous experimentation with peaceful political change before it reverted back to military rule.
Nor is the notion of “ancient sectarian hatreds” adequate to explain the frightening reality that along a front stretching from Basra at the mouth of the Persian Gulf to Beirut on the Mediterranean there exists an almost continuous bloodletting between Sunni and Shia—the public manifestation of an epic geopolitical battle for power and control pitting Iran, the Shia powerhouse, against Saudi Arabia, the Sunni powerhouse, and their proxies.
There is no one single overarching explanation for that tapestry of horrors in Syria and Iraq, where in the last five years more than a quarter of a million people perished, where famed cities like Aleppo, Homs and Mosul were visited by the modern terror of Assad’s chemical weapons and the brutal violence of the Islamic State. How could Syria tear itself apart and become—like Spain in the 1930s—the arena for Arabs and Muslims to re-fight their old civil wars? The war waged by the Syrian regime against civilians in opposition areas combined the use of Scud missiles, anti-personnel barrel bombs as well as medieval tactics against towns and neighborhoods such as siege and starvation. For the first time since the First World War, Syrians were dying of malnutrition and hunger.
post #339 of 2744
Apparently Wesley Clark is now a conspiracy theorist as well, since he openly declared that US' "friends and allies" funded and started ISIS.

It really isnt complicated when you look at the facts on the ground objectively:

- US, Saudi, Qatar, Turkey, Israel, want to weaken Iran. They see Iran in power in Iraq and Hezballah growing and Assad a very loyal ally.

- US takes out Saddam with no real viable plan for stable alternative. Iraq which was the center of sunni-shia tensions and the country where the full scale sunni shia war happened decades ago. This is all at the time where the GWB bush administration talkes of its plan for "creative chaos" and conflicts to redraw the middle east (translation: sectarian and tribal conflicts to further divide those idiots and protect Israel and supposed US interests)

- US takes out Qaddafi too for some reason after all this time then just leaves Libya to be which now makes Libya another stronghld for terrorists.

- Iran manages to grab a stronghold in Iraq.

- Iran abuses that in Iraq and doesnt manage to smartly guide the regime into better relations with iraqi sunnis.

- Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, THE US AS WELL are pissed and they start gathering their small terrorists to form and fund islamists to fight in Iraq and Syria. ALl their groups dont manage to make any decisive progress in SYria.

- Qatar and Turkey and initially Saudi Arabia form and fund ISIS, which manages to blitzkrieg its way into power in some areas and now attracts all the marginal terrorist groups.

- Qatar and Turkey are very happy.

- Saudi ARabia and the US sees that that group has grown too powerful and now fears for itself. They dont want to push it that much further, but they also dont want Syria and Iran to reap the benefits.

- Qatar and Turkey are very happy. Israel is backing Nusra in Southern Syria in terms of small scale logistics, medical aid, and intelligence. They dont want Assad-Hezballah at the border but are happy with the allied-controlled Al Qaeda branch for now.

- Now you have this mess. The US wants to keep ISIS in check, but not totally destroy it because it doesnt want Iran to reap those benefits. Saudi is about the same. Turkey and Qatar want to keep pushing. Israel wants Nusra.

Its quite obvious the decision to eliminate ISIS has not been taken. The support by Turkey, Qatar and Israel (to Nusra) is open for anyone to see. When you eliminate the funding sources, the weapons sources, and the corridors for the fighters, then they are reduced to smuggling tiny amounts and will return to being the groupuscule that every islamist group is bound to be when not injected with foreign steroids.

Theyre all playing a dangerous game with the lives of millions and entire communities.

Look at every radical islamist group (with the exception of Iran)

Alqaeda once formed and trained by the CIA to piss off the russians ---> becomes worldwide terrorist group

Saddam once backed by the US against Iran ---> becomes evil dictator that need taking out ----> Iraq becomes center for terrorists

Assad targeted by the US and allies ---> Islamists gain grounds, ISIS and Nusra are formed

For some reason they wake up and remember Qaddafi ----> Libya now ISIS' main fighters exporter.

And of course the source of all the ideologies and funding for all thse groups: Qatar and Saudi Arabia

Those countries in the middle east may have bred messed up dictatorships, but whenever i look at a radical islamist terrorist group, it always seems to be a hint of a western backed experiment gone wrong (or right, depending on your perspective)
post #340 of 2744
Thread Starter 

No. Out of curiosity, are you Lebanese?

Edited by ethanm - 2/23/15 at 5:08am
post #341 of 2744
^there are many assumptions in that sequence of incredible events ...

A written response to this article. It's not all that great and some of the arguments are weak, but it's a step in the right direction.
post #342 of 2744
The dispute about "real" Islam reminds me of debates over the US constitution. There's the text of the actual document itself on one side, and on the other, a gloss of interpretation so thick that it that lets those who are the "recognized mainstream authorities" do whatever they want with it. Thus growing wheat on your own land for your own use becomes "commerce among the several states," outlawing sodomy becomes a denial of "due process of law," a small town putting up a monument with the ten commandments violates the prohibition on "Congress making a law respecting an establishment of religion," and so forth and so on.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'd need a little more convincing than just an appeal to authority.
post #343 of 2744
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

point was just that ideological leanings don't preclude cooperation.

Salafis working with Alawis and Shias are working with the Taliban (Deobandis) - That's really stretching it. There are plenty of other reasons why these kind of statement makes no sense at all and its a propaganda spin.


No offense but the Islamic historical references you have been throwing in this thread and not true/completely true. These topics are outside the scope of this thread so there is no need to address it.


Originally Posted by the shah View Post

^there are many assumptions in that sequence of incredible events ...

Maybe but issues pertaining to Syria are heavily documented by multiple sources.  I am sure you are not going to see any issues with this because as per you Saudi only fault is printing Ibn Tamiyya /Qayyam book. Never mind the fact that they have been bitching and moaning about the Irani crescent for years now.

post #344 of 2744
Uh I'm pretty sure shah isn't Saudi. uhoh.gif
post #345 of 2744
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by Eason View Post

Uh I'm pretty sure shah isn't Saudi. uhoh.gif

He is missing a comma. As per you, Saudi ...

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