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ethan's Musing on the Near East - Page 174

post #2596 of 2695
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post


I don't see how the long term trend of overstating Iran's menace

 

I'm curious where Iran's menace has been overstated. If anything it is understated. 

post #2597 of 2695
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

I'm curious where Iran's menace has been overstated. If anything it is understated. 

Here you go :P
post #2598 of 2695
Thread Starter 

Look, SA may deal in intolerance but Iran deals in war and death. They are second only to China in executions and they are the top funder of terror organizations. 

 

It wasn't SA who helped elect a terror organization in Gazza, it isn't SA that funds and sends marching orders to the group responsible for the last Israeli incursion into Lebanon, it isn't SA that has ravaged cities in Iraq with its sectarian proxies, etc etc etc. 

 

Now of course the axis of resistance dickweeds are going to say that I have no criticisms of Saudi Arabia which is not true. 

post #2599 of 2695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

No one said any of those things so there is nothing to disagree with...

My general familiarity with people here (Jordan) who cite the SA-US alliance is that they also believe in a US-Israel-SA axis and go as far as claiming ISIS to be their creation. This idea is prevalent amongst people who support Bashar as well as people who hate him, amongst religious people as well as atheists.

Some comments in this thread haven't been far from those claims. "US supported Islamists" is a repeated quote - it's such a general meaning that's pretty much meant to make the same claim; that ISIS is a direct creation of the US (along with SA and Israel). Now, it's pretty clear to me that ISIS was at least partially indirectly forged by the US, and it's also pretty apparent that Isreal's military power benefits from what ISIS is doing inside Syria...but that's different from the implication of the quote.
post #2600 of 2695
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

I don't see how the long term trend of overstating Iran's menace

I'm curious where Iran's menace has been overstated. If anything it is understated. 

In this thread or by USG ?
post #2601 of 2695
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

In this thread or by USG ?

By the US gov in general let's say over nearly 40 yrs?
post #2602 of 2695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post


There's a whole continuum difference between disengaging and going all in. I don't see how the long term trend of overstating Iran's menace and understating's SA nefarious influence was a given and couldn't have been revised at some key points. Now the USA is a country pouring money into SA and Israel and thus making sure nothing is ever resolved there and tensions go from festering to all out violence and back to festering.

 

Dear Fuuma,

 

    And what's wrong with that?

 

Sincerely,

 

    The CEOs of Raytheon, Lockheed-Martin, BAE, General Dynamics, McDonnell-Douglas, Northrup Grumman, Boeing, and Halliburton

 

Sent from our private islands

post #2603 of 2695
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post
 

 

I'm curious where Iran's menace has been overstated. If anything it is understated. 

 

If you can get past the uncomfortable rhetoric, the actual incidents documented here are all easily verified:

 

The Phantom Menace: Fantasies, falsehoods, and fear-mongering about Iran’s nuclear program

 

http://www.wideasleepinamerica.com/2010/12/phantom-menace-fantasies-falsehoods-and.html

post #2604 of 2695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

In this thread or by USG ?
By the US gov in general let's say over nearly 40 yrs?

Then I would say ethan's assessment isn't exactly accurate starting from 37 years ago, at least in terms of public deliveries.
post #2605 of 2695
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

Look, SA may deal in intolerance but Iran deals in war and death. They are second only to China in executions and they are the top funder of terror organizations. 

It wasn't SA who helped elect a terror organization in Gazza, it isn't SA that funds and sends marching orders to the group responsible for the last Israeli incursion into Lebanon, it isn't SA that has ravaged cities in Iraq with its sectarian proxies, etc etc etc. 

Now of course the axis of resistance dickweeds are going to say that I have no criticisms of Saudi Arabia which is not true. 

Re: capital punishment, per capita iran and saudi are effectively equal. In terms of funding, SA has a less tangible but probably equally if not more dangerous interest in exporting ideology. Iran has tried this (think back to Khomeini pressing for islamic revolution across the region) but seems more interested in regional consolidation rather than international influence (Saudi PR machine is another massive card they play all over).

Don't take this as defense of the IRI regime, though. I just want to compare apples to oranges because both are important.
post #2606 of 2695

maybe some will find this interesting on the topic of Syria, it's a quite recent interview with Assad
post #2607 of 2695
Thread Starter 
Nothing he says has any value except as a master class in propaganda.
post #2608 of 2695
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post


maybe some will find this interesting on the topic of Syria, it's a quite recent interview with Assad

I don't care what he says, there's a clear difference between moderate rebels and Al-Nusra.

Moreover, the simple question: why don't you stand down? His answer was some selfless bullshit.

Even if he truly believes what he's saying, and even if he himself had moral ground to stand on:
a) He's failed to control his army during the war (if he didn't command some of the dirty actions asked in the questions - which I agree he probably didn't as like he said it doesn't really serve him well)
b) He's failed to control his government's actions before the war - this is the key point really. The rebels rebelled for a reason, and had public support for a reason.
c) He hasn't had a clean, non-corrupted election in decades - you can verify this by talking to anyone who's ever voted in Syria.

He should absolutely stand down.
post #2609 of 2695
Too bad noone found out where those moderate rebels are, nor the groups theyre in, nor the territories they control.

Except the groupuscules that Turkey takes on joyrides as it "liberates" villages from ISIS.

Aleppo is Nusra + Ahrar, Ghouta is Jeish Islam, Idlib is Nusra, Rakka is ISIS.

Take those out and the "moderates" can keep whatever basement theyve been hiding in the past decade.



As for not controlling the country, Bahrain had to send for armies from Saudi and Dubai at the first sign of peaceful protests.

Saudi Arabia and almost all of the gulf havent had elections in their history.

You pour all those fighters that came into Syria and all the weapons and money into Saudi Arabia and the regime wouldnt last a week guaranteed.

Hell even the houthis are now inside Saudi Arabia and they dont even have shoes to wear.



But yes, Bashar should have stepped down. Im sure all the americans calling for it online would have suited up and came and protected moderate Damascus sunnis and alawites and christians and shiites in Syria, just like they did so wonderfully in Iraq and Libya.

Whether it means anything to him or not, hes carrying the responsibility for the safety of many communities and the social freedoms of the syrian people, which while they lacked the political one, is much more than the populations of America's allies have.
post #2610 of 2695
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alan View Post

But yes, Bashar should have stepped down. Im sure all the americans calling for it online would have suited up and came and protected moderate Damascus sunnis and alawites and christians and shiites in Syria, just like they did so wonderfully in Iraq and Libya.

Whether it means anything to him or not, hes carrying the responsibility for the safety of many communities and the social freedoms of the syrian people, which while they lacked the political one, is much more than the populations of America's allies have.

 

There was a window for him to do so. Instead he chose a reckless campaign of violent crackdowns. He may very well believe in a lot of the same values as the West but you have to see that it's impossible for Syria to stabilize while he is still around. 

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