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ethan's Musing on the Near East - Page 144

post #2146 of 2692
The US would have been welcome to supply them with guided bombs ethan.

Maybe the same ones theyre giving to saudis? In that war that the US supports in Yemen?

But they were too busy smuggling weapons to terrorists via Jordan i guess.


Youre subjecting Assad to standards that noone else in the world adheres to, not even the precious western democracies. And hes facing worse enemies than all.
post #2147 of 2692
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post
 

Yeah man killing thousands of civilians via unguided bombing campaigns and political prisons and selling your country out to Iran is an awesome way to fight a war.

STFU....Already posted a Wikileaks that US wanted this to happen 10 years ago. Its the same shit we pulled with the Kurds when Saddam was in power and he fucking knocked them out with chemical warfare. We still shook his hand.

 

Quote:
 selling your country out to Iran is an awesome way to fight a war.

 

Guess he should have turned it over to our ally Saudi or Qatar or maybe the GCC..Oh wait, none of them know the meaning of democracy.

post #2148 of 2692
I remember in the pre-irak war days, hezballah speeches detailed what would happen under US foreign policy in the coming years and they pretty much described it to a word.

From the disintegration of iraq and incitation for sunni shiite war to the targeting of syria and hezballah to weaken Iran in anticipation of ultimately takingg it out.

Back then it was bush-bandar ben sultan days and they followed that script to the letter.

To be fair these days it SEEMS that the US pulled the brakes and its their allies that are fucking shit up

But its interesting to think backk. We were in the anti-assad camp then and treated all those speeches as mindless propaganda rhetoric
post #2149 of 2692
Western world conducting war in ME = creating bigger problems for themselves.
post #2150 of 2692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Find Finn View Post

Western world conducting war in ME = creating bigger problems for themselves.

Its time to discuss a giant wall.
post #2151 of 2692
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLMountainMan View Post


Sure, because if you don't like to pick on Jews, you must be a a lunatic Israel-firster. nod[1].gif This came after the FSU student body voted to support BDS. Probably using iPhones made in China and an app made in Israel.

 

The text of the legislation certainly proves my points.  Thanks for posting it.

 

1.  Private businesses can choose to do business - or not to do business - with any other country or entity at any time, for any reason.  Governments are not afforded that luxury - they are obligated to treat businesses (and by extension their owners - remember that Romney's "corporations are people" statement is factually true if clumsily stated) equally under the law.

 

2.  Government dictating to businesses how they may conduct themselves on matters of social justice has a chilling effect on free speech and free association.

 

3.  States are out of their depth trying to affect international commerce, purview over which the Constitution grants to Congress.

 

4.  Equating BDS with "anti-Semitism" - as this legislation does multiple times in its preamble, is absurd.  BDS is about an occupation that has lasted since Bobby Kennedy was alive and Ted Cruz hadn't yet been conceived.  It is about children being bombed as they play soccer on the beach.  It is about houses being bulldozed by the hundreds, being rebuilt by their rightful owners, and being bulldozed yet again.  Israel wants to have it both ways: it wants to portray itself as a "secular democracy" , yet it calls itself "the Jewish state"  when it wants to deflect any criticism of the actions of its hardline government.  It can't have it both ways.  If you want to be a "secular democracy" then either return to the 1967 borders and grant a Right of Return, or formally annex all the occupied territories, grant citizenship and absolute equality to all peoples living both within the 1967 borders and the territories, and deal with the consequences when a coalition of Arabs, Christians and moderate Jews kicks Bibi to the curb.  If you want to be a "Jewish state" then acknowledge that the real power in your country isn't controlled by the people but by a shadow government of hardline theologians, just like Iran.

 

5.  If this legislation passes, be prepared to shell out a boatload of taxpayer money to government lawyers, plaintiffs lawyers, and the companies who fight it and win.


Edited by NickCarraway - 2/5/16 at 7:48am
post #2152 of 2692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Find Finn View Post

Western world conducting war in ME = creating bigger problems for themselves.

 

Isn't it amazing that 99.9% of the world understands this, but the ones who don't are the ones who get elected?

post #2153 of 2692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medwed View Post


There are political opposition and debates inside Israel on the issue of Arabs and territories. There are no consensus even inside gov. or citizenry . I think you don't see the difference between opposing policies and opposing Israel. Calling for boycott or divestment is not criticism it is a call to isolate and discriminate against the state of Israel and that is not part of a debate it is part of organised movement with certain goals .

 

BDS specifically targets companies who contract with the Israeli military or whose business is related to or profiting from Israel's occupation of Arab/Palestinian territories.  It does not mean refusing to buy a coffee cup at Wal-Mart because it says "Made In Israel".

 

BDS also seeks to raise awareness about "a series of repressive policies (including) the denial of the right of return of Palestinian refugees, militarised violence directed against Palestinian men, women and children, the confiscation of land from Palestinians, the demolition of Palestinian homes and the daily racism invoked by a series of policies directed at Palestinians that encumber their freedom of mobility, access to education and ability to earn a living."

post #2154 of 2692
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickCarraway View Post

by a shadow government of hardline theologians, just like Iran.

i just want to point out that the shadow is in a deeper and darker recess than you may imagine. in fact, the theologians probably don't even assume they're running anything, at least not at the upper echelons of the government. if you look at the behavior of the sepah (IRGC), a separate military branch of the armed forces that works independently of the army/navy/airforce/etc., you'll see they have been slowly but surely building up economic leverage. They've bought into energy/resources and telecommunications sectors, consolidating economic power on top of military dominance. The leader, khamenei now, must be completely loyal to them and i doubt he would act in any way out of accord. He just provides the face of "religious legitimization" of what's going on.
post #2155 of 2692
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLMountainMan View Post


I'm all ears for why Israel should get the BDS treatment and not China.

 

Because the US government has acted multiple times against China (and Sudan and North Korea and others).  BDS fills the vacuum (in fact it acts as a counter-balance, since US aid is a primary financing source of the occupation).

post #2156 of 2692
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

I don't think you can compare their behaviors, at least the extents to which they carry out policies. And divestment from China is economic suicide.

But in any case, please please please keep Arab-Israeli issues out of this thread it's the one decent thread in CE that doesn't devolve into mindless partisan babbling (except for the trolls but that's expected of them, and you're not one so you can't be excused!)

I'm genuinely sorry. Hadn't picked up on that. I'll let the others have the last word and move along. fistbump.gif
post #2157 of 2692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post

Its time to discuss a giant wall.

Nah, just keep the military out of it and use diplomacy and withhold foreign aid, hitting warlords on the wallet is probably the best solution.
post #2158 of 2692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Find Finn View Post

Nah, just keep the military out of it and use diplomacy and withhold foreign aid, hitting warlords on the wallet is probably the best solution.
so legalize heroin?
post #2159 of 2692
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickCarraway View Post

BDS specifically targets companies who contract with the Israeli military or whose business is related to or profiting from Israel's occupation of Arab/Palestinian territories.  It does not mean refusing to buy a coffee cup at Wal-Mart because it says "Made In Israel".
You very well know that it does not work that way. Consumers and public orgs are not going to google every product to see if it Ok to buy it despite the Made in Israel label. So please don't insult my intelligence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickCarraway View Post

BDS also seeks to raise awareness about "a series of repressive policies (including) the denial of the right of return of Palestinian refugees,
Just like Texas denies Spanish return or Hawaii denies Japanese or Turks deny anyone's return or Poland denies Jewish property claims or Austria ......etc etc. Problem wth Arabs that they cannot return to the country against which they waged a war. That is why majority of so called Pals are now in Jordan. Israel did not expel them nor attacked them to take their land. Israel simply won the war and closed the borders. Rightfully so. Those Arabs who remained in Israel are still there inside Israel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickCarraway View Post

militarised violence directed against Palestinian men, women and children,
This stinks of propaganda anti-semitic BS. Look at your own fucking country unleashing all types of weapons on Arabs and fanning sectarian & civil wars. You are wetting your bed over Israel strikes in retailiation for Arabs attacks and you feel Arabs should have killed more Jews then it would not be "Militarised violence"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickCarraway View Post

the confiscation of land from Palestinians, the demolition of Palestinian homes
I don't support eminent domain laws either. However when such laws used against organised terrorist groups I am ok with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickCarraway View Post

and the daily racism invoked by a series of policies directed at Palestinians that encumber their freedom of mobility, access to education and ability to earn a living."
Every where in the world countries encumber poor peoples mobility to cross borders of such countries in order to benefit economically from developed country they had no hand in creating but on contrary trying their darndest to destroy. Heartless Jews would not let Arabs to come and earn a living in ISrael. I can only imagine how appalled you are. Why don't you give up your job to some L. American migrant, he can use it . What are you a racists?
post #2160 of 2692
Medwed, what do you mean rightfully so?

First, the zionists before the creation of israel, used the british occupation to force people out, by direct british violence as well as zionist armed groups, in addition to outright land buying.

Secondly they brought in a sudden influx of israelis and declared a jewish state for these people, which included within it arabs that had been there and didnt want to be part of it.

Anyway, lets say this is all fait accompli. That state has recognized borders and everything it is doing now in jerusalem, west bank and gaza is in terroritories that dont belong to it and where other people live yet it actively works to change the demography and bring in their zealot religious settlers instead.


Nothing in this is rightful and there isnt one step in all of this where any american or european or any human would not have fought back harsher than palestinians have.
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