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ethan's Musing on the Near East - Page 134

post #1996 of 2696
Thread Starter 

Thanks for letting us know that you're part of the conspiracy. 

 

post #1997 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

Ok, so I went back and re-read the NYT piece you linked, along with Hersh's original piece. And a few other sources.

Hersh's reputation and accolades are probably well-deserved, but in more recent times his theories have been bordering the absurd.

From the NYT article you linked, regarding a fellow who went to Pakistan to investigate the potential cooperation of their military in the operation:
So what does Hersh have to say ? Well it starts with this apparent all-knowing retired senior intelligence official who was knowledgeable about the initial intelligence about bin Laden’s presence in Abbottabad and also was privy to many aspects of the Seals’ training for the raid, and to the various after-action reports. Every single statement regarding any event that took place is preceded or proceeded with, "said the retired general." The only named source is a Pakistani guy that retired 2 decades ago.

Afridi, the doctor that was supposedly thrown under the bus according to this anonymous source, is still in jail and US funds to Pakistan have been withheld and the threat to do so further continues pending his release. So the US forced his arrest and now holds money back until he's released ?

The bit about the burial service is strange. The imam is just the one who leads the prayer. There are even specific cases when the corpse is not available and so the prayer can be done in absentia (of the deceased).
There's another NYT piece that agrees with some of Hersh's propositions, but justifies them with assertions that amount to, "trust me i know," never mind acknowledging that the claim of ISI knowledge cannot even be justified but that they simply "sound true."
So while it is certainly within the realm of possibility that the continually-amended versions that have been released from the administration contain at the very least many inaccuracies, Hersh's rendering effectively amounts to all the people who've written about this lying in some grand conspiracy held together by the glue of Obama's future legacy. Put another way, Hersh says that, "The White House’s story might have been written by Lewis Carroll," and his story might have been written by Edgar Allan Poe, quoth the retired official.
This whole post is bizarre for me. In a drunken Christmas stupor I cannot comprehend such things as true, however, i know I'm giving in to appeal to emotion. I could see both sides of this where people who didn't agree with Hersh cherry picked but at the same time I could see Hersh supporters being disingenuous.
post #1998 of 2696
I was expecting Hersh was saying the US knew all along. But to say Pakistan knew is not far fetched at all. In fact i would say the opposite is.

Anyone who has lived in the middle east will tell you its very hard that someone would live in a big house let alone a compound without authorities knowing who it is.

In these regimes half the population are informants either directly or indirectly.
post #1999 of 2696
As for Hersh blaming rebels for gas attacks, its common knowledge at this point

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-22424188

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0SU2PZ20151106
post #2000 of 2696
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alan View Post

As for Hersh blaming rebels for gas attacks, its common knowledge at this point

 

You are 100% deluded if you don't think Assad is using chemical weapons. ISIS using mustard gas does not = rebels using chemical weapons.

 

Alan, I get it but you really should try to be a little more objective. 

post #2001 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by alan View Post

As for Hersh blaming rebels for gas attacks, its common knowledge at this point

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-22424188

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0SU2PZ20151106

he put the blame on turkey, not rebels (even those articles don't accuse directly)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickCarraway View Post

mil.us sharing intel with Assad in defiance of Obama & CIA

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-22/seymour-hersh-bombshell-us-military-shared-intelligence-assad-defiance-obama-cia

the way you phrased your post makes it seem like you didn't read hersh's article which is the source for what you linked.
post #2002 of 2696
Thread Starter 

SDF has taken the Tishrin Dam and crossed the Euphrates. Kurdish militias are forming in Turkey. Turkey sicks its Syrian proxies on Afrin canton. 

 

Is it time for the war to spill into Turkey? 

post #2003 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

You are 100% deluded if you don't think Assad is using chemical weapons. ISIS using mustard gas does not = rebels using chemical weapons.

Alan, I get it but you really should try to be a little more objective. 

All three are not mutually exclusive. Was just referring to the view that Hersh would blame rebels for incidents as ridiculous, which it isnt.


Shah its not ridiculous to blame Turkey either. I dont know etails or info about chemicals since its hard to get an unbiased source, but isis and nusra pretty much get their fighters, money, weapons, oil, political support, etc... from Turkey so is it really that ridiculous to include one more thing (not that it makes any difference in the grand scheme of things)
post #2004 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

SDF has taken the Tishrin Dam and crossed the Euphrates. Kurdish militias are forming in Turkey. Turkey sicks its Syrian proxies on Afrin canton. 

Is it time for the war to spill into Turkey? 
Turkey is attacking Kurdish town on southeast Turkish border called Gizhram I believe. I forget the exact towns name, I was listening to either a Reuters or bbc podcast that mentioned it.
post #2005 of 2696
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract View Post


Turkey is attacking Kurdish town on southeast Turkish border called Gizhram I believe. I forget the exact towns name, I was listening to either a Reuters or bbc podcast that mentioned it.


Cizre and yes. Turkey's counter-insurgency methods are very heavy handed but not reckless like al-Asad's. Lots of Kurdish people saying this is worse than the 90s though and with the momentum the YPG has... it could get dicey. The YPG surely have designs on advancing towards Jarablus. 

post #2006 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post


Cizre and yes. Turkey's counter-insurgency methods are very heavy handed but not reckless like al-Asad's. Lots of Kurdish people saying this is worse than the 90s though and with the momentum the YPG has... it could get dicey. The YPG surely have designs on advancing towards Jarablus. 
Thank you for the clarification. The interview I heard was from a man stuck in a basement and apparently turkey was just shelling indiscriminately, although the actual Kurdish rebels were fighting pretty hard too. Lots of people stuck who didn't get out in time.
post #2007 of 2696
Turkey providing sarin or allowing its transit through its borders is not far fetched thinking given their behavior and goals in this conflict. They obviously want to see Assad toppled- downed several Syrian jets, bomb Kurds fighting ISIS in Syria and very obviously buy oil from ISIS. It's not past them do something like that. Assad had ZERO incentive to use gas back then it was at verge of USA's intervention and Assad's back wasn't against the wall, rebels had every reason to use gas and blame it on Assad. IMO it's most likely a false flag either by rebels or Turkey to drag USA into a war. Similar false flag operation was used as an excuse to topple Saddam- and worked.
post #2008 of 2696
Thread Starter 

False flag is not a term that is allowed in this thread. Take your conspiracy theories elsewhere. 

post #2009 of 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post
 

False flag is not a term that is allowed in this thread. Take your conspiracy theories elsewhere. 

 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gulf+of+tonkin

post #2010 of 2696
Thread Starter 

False pretenses =/= false flag you mouth breathing Russia Today reading losers.

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