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ethan's Musing on the Near East - Page 116

post #1726 of 2699
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

This is not obtuse, this is going by the definition of what you claimed. The gendarmerie hasn't even sent funds. There is nothing about any government-related entitiy sending money. Anyway, I'm not saying it's impossible, just that based on the links thus far shared there's nothing that implicates Turkey, directly or otherwise, of "primary funder" status.
You'll have to excuse me if I don't believe a word the Russians say

You are ignoring facts in order to make your point seem valid.
post #1727 of 2699
The thing is, you're the one who made a claim--plausible though it may be--and then provided links that don't back up that claim. That's my only point. If it makes things easier, please look up the definitions of "primary" and "funder."
post #1728 of 2699
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

The thing is, you're the one who made a claim--plausible though it may be--and then provided links that don't back up that claim. That's my only point. If it makes things easier, please look up the definitions of "primary" and "funder."

If you are illiterate you may not be able to put these well fitting puzzle pieces together. You are also omitting any information coming from Russia due to your personal bias, so it's either you accept multiple sources, including Russian intelligence (who were allies with turkey prior to turkey shooting down the SU24) or you can just bury your head in the sand and make patronizing remarks instead of rebutting with actual information. Show me where ISIS is getting its funding. Show me erdogan denouncing any of this. Show me evidence that the gendarmerie was acting against the will of erdogan and what he did to punish these units. Show me what he's doing to stop this oil entering turkish refineries. Show me why there would be any reason politically or financially that would dissuade him from buying bargain oil from the people fighting his enemy in Syria.
post #1729 of 2699
I'm not denying any of it , I'm just saying that the words you used to describe Turkey (let me remind you that your term was "primary funder") do not mean what you think they do. Instead of assailing my character, you would do better to find direct evidence from credible sources rather than circumstantial anecdotes of Turkish officials turning a blind eye. I already shared one quote from your own linked article showing the actions of Turkish police going against the interests of oil merchants. At this point you are like the people who make the arguments that the CIA armed Osama bin Laden simply because U.S. sent weapons through Pakistan and they ended up in OBL's possession. By extension why not now argue that, as the EU member states have sent money to Turkey despite knowing what you do they are in effect funding ISIS ? It follows the same logic you've employed.
post #1730 of 2699
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

I'm not denying any of it , I'm just saying that the words you used to describe Turkey (let me remind you that your term was "primary funder") do not mean what you think they do. Instead of assailing my character, you would do better to find direct evidence from credible sources rather than circumstantial anecdotes of Turkish officials turning a blind eye. I already shared one quote from your own linked article showing the actions of Turkish police going against the interests of oil merchants. At this point you are like the people who make the arguments that the CIA armed Osama bin Laden simply because U.S. sent weapons through Pakistan and they ended up in OBL's possession. By extension why not now argue that, as the EU member states have sent money to Turkey despite knowing what you do they are in effect funding ISIS ? It follows the same logic you've employed.
Here's a great example of how erdogan feels about supporting Isis even when his generals get caught.

http://mobile.todayszaman.com/national_turkish-generals-arrested-for-inspecting-weapons-filled-trucks-bound-for-syria_405655.html

On Nov. 24, Erdoğan seemingly validated claims that the Turkish government was sending weapon-filled trucks to radical groups in Syria by sarcastically asking “So what if the MİT trucks were filled with weapons?” Speaking to a room full of teachers gathered for Teachers' Day, Erdoğan said: “You know about the treason regarding the MİT trucks, don't you? So what if there were weapons in them? I believe that our people will not forgive those who sabotaged this support.”
post #1731 of 2699
As for people who speak out: After the publication of the stills as well as video, Erdoğan lashed out at Cumhuriyet and its editor-in-chief, Can Dündar, for publishing the evidence, publicly vowing that Dündar would "pay a heavy price" for his report.

According to the report, there were six steel containers in the trucks which contained a total of 1,000 artillery shells, 50,000 machine gun rounds, 30,000 heavy machine gun rounds and 1,000 mortar shells. All of this is registered in the prosecutor's file on the MİT truck case, the report said.

Erdoğan personally sued Dündar and is requesting that he be given a life sentence, an aggravated life sentence and an additional 42-year term of imprisonment on charges related to a variety of crimes, ranging from espionage to attempting to topple the government and exposing secret information.
post #1732 of 2699
Well there's no doubt he's a maniacal product of backlash against the whole EU aspiration, a strong swing of the pendulum to complete opposite end. He mentioned that if allegations of aid to daesh were true he would step down, something I doubt he'll follow through with.

IS is an enemy of pkk, which Erdogan calls a terrorist organization. By the same token they've arrested almost thousand people in connection with the Ankara bombing they're blaming daesh for...
post #1733 of 2699
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

Well there's no doubt he's a maniacal product of backlash against the whole EU aspiration, a strong swing of the pendulum to complete opposite end. He mentioned that if allegations of aid to daesh were true he would step down, something I doubt he'll follow through with.

IS is an enemy of pkk, which Erdogan calls a terrorist organization. By the same token they've arrested almost thousand people in connection with the Ankara bombing they're blaming daesh for...

Can you provide a link for the 1000 arrests because I can't find anything that talks of arrests at nearly that scale?
post #1734 of 2699
maybe saying turkey is funding Isis is too vague. Erdogan and his allies are supplying them whereas the military and police seem largely secular.
post #1735 of 2699
Arrests don't mean all that much in the grand scheme, and well I rounded up redface.gif
Quote:
A total of 768 people have been arrested over suspected links to ISIS since the Suruc attack in July.

english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/10/22/Erdogan-says-ISIS-Kurds-Syrian-intelligence-behind-Ankara-bombing.html
post #1736 of 2699
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

Arrests don't mean all that much in the grand scheme, and well I rounded up redface.gif
english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/10/22/Erdogan-says-ISIS-Kurds-Syrian-intelligence-behind-Ankara-bombing.html
“The PKK, Daesh, the Mukhabarat, the PYD are all involved. They planned this operation together,” he said, referring to the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), the ISIS group, Syria’s state-controlled military intelligence service and Syria's Kurdish Democratic Union Party (PYD).
This is my problem with this article. What percentage of arrests are Isis? Very vague.
post #1737 of 2699
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract View Post

This is my problem with this article. What percentage of arrests are Isis? Very vague.

 

A lot of those arrests did not lead to charges also.

post #1738 of 2699
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

A lot of those arrests did not lead to charges also.

I also have a bit of skepticism that Isis would work with other groups after reading every dabiq issue. It's basically like allying with apostates.
post #1739 of 2699
Thread Starter 

No you're right that is 100% fabrication. Erdogan blames the PKK for everything. He even blamed the PKK for killing Taher Elci. 

post #1740 of 2699
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

No you're right that is 100% fabrication. Erdogan blames the PKK for everything. He even blamed the PKK for killing Taher Elci. 

Watch out. Without direct quotes from erdogan, the shah will accuse you of making shit up
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