or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › General › Current Events, Power and Money › ethan's Musing on the Near East
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

ethan's Musing on the Near East - Page 105

post #1561 of 2695
I think one should look at the simple process of how a terrorist is formed. Radical ideas probably wont be eradicated any time soon but how they to from groupuscules to isis and alqaeda is quite simple.

Lets give an example in lebanon.

You have sunni areas under extreme poverty. Like for example tripoli. Young kids roaming the street there dont have much going for them. You have a local mosque with an imam. That mosque and imam receive funding from the gulf countries.

He starts teaching those kids his ideology. He helps them with money. The people around him probabky have guns and are idolized by the kids. That imam now has a group of young radicalized teens.

Now this is still all very localised. Say the security forces want to arrest him. Some officers will be under saudi payroll. Others wont want to risk saudi wrath and pressure to remove them. If hes arrested then the gulf intelligence or their lebanese lackeys will burn a whole city. So basically the imam operates under protection.
Until his group does something very bad, hes left alone
He starts giving those kids salaries. They are now totally engulfed in his radical ideology.

And the gulf masters can pretty much point them wherever they want. If he tells them bashar is bad they go there. America? They go there. Shiites, etc....
When syria and saudi arabia had a deal in place in lebanon those same imams would never attack bashar

And this happens in a billion other places. You basically have well funded terrorist production machines everywhere.
post #1562 of 2695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Find Finn View Post

And who owns half of London.......

you're confusing two separate entities
post #1563 of 2695
@alan you might be interested in some of Scott Atran's work, he's studied group dynamics of these fellows. What you discuss isn't off target, but it It turns out many groups aren't hailing from downtrodden poor areas either. They develop almost like athletics teams, building bonds and brotherhood, they all for example shave their heads and beards and start growing them together, etc. This develops the deep trust and self-encouragement for them to ultimately carry out their missions (suicide bombs, or what have you). It's total psychological brain washing
post #1564 of 2695
Putin: ISIS financed from 40 nations including some in the G20
post #1565 of 2695
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

@alan you might be interested in some of Scott Atran's work, he's studied group dynamics of these fellows. What you discuss isn't off target, but it It turns out many groups aren't hailing from downtrodden poor areas either. They develop almost like athletics teams, building bonds and brotherhood, they all for example shave their heads and beards and start growing them together, etc. This develops the deep trust and self-encouragement for them to ultimately carry out their missions (suicide bombs, or what have you). It's total psychological brain washing

Will check it out.

Perhaps Lebanon is a special case because the sunni community here hasnt been a very welcoming place for the radicals and they havent managed to expand much. Most of their recruits here come from extreme poverty.
post #1566 of 2695
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

you're confusing two separate entities

The qatari investment authority is owned and run by the qatari royal family, which is the same people referred to in the post, so not really no.


Its peculiar, that Europe is essentially financing the war against Europe via Qatar's investments in real estate, car firms etc.
post #1567 of 2695
The so-called war on terror is nearly 13 years old, but which rational human being will be cheering its success? We’ve had crackdowns on civil liberties across the world, tabloid-fanned generalisations about Muslims and, of course, military interventions whose consequences have ranged from the disastrous to the catastrophic. And where have we ended up? Wars that Britons believe have made them less safe; jihadists too extreme even for al-Qaida’s tastes running amok in Iraq and Syria; and nations like Libya succumbing to Islamist militias. There are failures, and then there are calamities.

But as the British government ramps up the terror alert to “severe” and yet more anti-terror legislation is proposed, some reflection after 13 years of disaster is surely needed. One element has been missing, and that is the west’s relationship with Middle Eastern dictatorships that have played a pernicious role in the rise of Islamist fundamentalist terrorism. And no wonder: the west is militarily, economically and diplomatically allied with these often brutal regimes, and our media all too often reflects the foreign policy objectives of our governments.


Take Qatar. There is evidence that, as the US magazine The Atlantic puts it, “Qatar’s military and economic largesse has made its way to Jabhat al-Nusra”, an al-Qaida group operating in Syria. Less than two weeks ago, Germany’s development minister, Gerd Mueller, was slapped down after pointing the finger at Qatar for funding Islamic State (Isis).

While there is no evidence to suggest Qatar’s regime is directly funding Isis, powerful private individuals within the state certainly are, and arms intended for other jihadi groups are likely to have fallen into their hands. According to a secret memo signed by Hillary Clinton, released by Wikileaks, Qatar has the worst record of counter-terrorism cooperation with the US.

And yet, where are the western demands for Qatar to stop funding international terrorism or being complicit in the rise of jihadi groups? Instead, Britain arms Qatar’s dictatorship, selling it millions of pounds worth of weaponry including “crowd-control ammunition” and missile parts. There are other reasons for Britain to keep stumm, too. Qatar owns lucrative chunks of Britain such as the Shard, a big portion of Sainsbury’s and a slice of the London Stock Exchange.

Then there’s Kuwait, slammed by Amnesty International for curtailing freedom of expression, beating and torturing demonstrators and discriminating against women. Hundreds of millions have been channelled by wealthy Kuwaitis to Syria, again ending up with groups like Jabhat al-Nusra.


Kuwait has refused to ban the Revival of Islamic Heritage Society, a supposed charity designated by the US Treasury as an al-Qaida bankroller. David Cohen, the US Treasury’s undersecretary for terrorism and financial intelligence, has even described Kuwait as the “epicentre of fundraising for terrorist groups in Syria”. As Kristian Coates Ulrichsen, an associate fellow at Chatham House, told me: “High profile Kuwaiti clerics were quite openly supporting groups like al-Nusra, using TV programmes in Kuwait to grandstand on it.” All of this is helped by lax laws on financing and money laundering, he says.

But don’t expect any concerted action from the British government. Kuwait is “an important British ally in the region”, as the British government officially puts it. Tony Blair has become the must-have accessory of every self-respecting dictator, ranging from Kazakhstan to Egypt; Kuwait was Tony Blair Associates’ first client in a deal worth £27m. Britain has approved hundreds of arms licences to Kuwait since 2003, recently including military software and anti-riot shields.

And then, of course, there is the dictatorship in Saudi Arabia. Much of the world was rightly repulsed when Isis beheaded the courageous journalist James Foley. Note, then, that Saudi Arabia has beheaded 22 people since 4 August. Among the “crimes” that are punished with beheading are sorcery and drug trafficking.

Around 2,000 people have been killed since 1985, their decapitated corpses often left in public squares as a warning. According to Amnesty International, the death penalty “is so far removed from any kind of legal parameters that it is almost hard to believe”, with the use of torture to extract confessions commonplace. Shia Muslims are discriminated against and women are deprived of basic rights, having to seek permission from a man before they can even travel or take up paid work.

Advertisement

Even talking about atheism has been made a terrorist offence and in 2012, 25-year-old Hamza Kashgari was jailed for 20 months for tweeting about the prophet Muhammad. Here are the fruits of the pact between an opulent monarchy and a fanatical clergy.

This human rights abusing regime is deeply complicit in the rise of Islamist extremism too. Following the Soviet invasion, the export of the fundamentalist Saudi interpretation of Islam – Wahhabism – fused with Afghan Pashtun tribal code and helped to form the Taliban. The Saudi monarchy would end up suffering from blowback as al-Qaida eventually turned against the kingdom.

Chatham House professor Paul Stevens says: “For a long time, there was an unwritten agreement … whereby al-Qaida’s presence was tolerated in Saudi Arabia, but don’t piss inside the tent, piss outside.” Coates Ulrichsen warns that Saudi policy on Syria could be “Afghanistan on steroids”, as elements of the regime have turned a blind eye to where funding for anti-Assad rebels ends up.

Although Saudi Arabia has given $100m (£60m) to the UN anti-terror programme and the country’s grand mufti has denounced Isis as “enemy number one”, radical Salafists across the Middle East receive ideological and material backing from within the kingdom. According to Clinton’s leaked memo, Saudi donors constituted “the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide”.

But again, don’t expect Britain to act. Our alliance with the regime dates back to 1915, and Saudi Arabia is the British arms industry’s biggest market, receiving £1.6bn of military exports. There are now more than 200 joint ventures between UK and Saudi companies worth $17.5bn.

So much rhetoric about terrorism; so many calls to act. Yet Britain’s foreign policy demonstrates how empty such words are. Our allies are up to their necks in complicity with terrorism, but as long as there is money to be made and weapons to sell, our rulers’ lips will remain stubbornly sealed.








Sorry for spamming articls but opinions are always trusted more when they come from western sources tongue.gif

I think the problem with the western policy in the region is that it has always prioritized two things: oil and israel. Which has led it to coexist and support gulf regimes which have kept the oil flowing and have been neutral at best towards israel. And has led the West to ignore or even use at times the radical islam that these countries have fostered.
post #1568 of 2695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Find Finn View Post


The qatari investment authority is owned and run by the qatari royal family, which is the same people referred to in the post, so not really no.


Its peculiar, that Europe is essentially financing the war against Europe via Qatar's investments in real estate, car firms etc.

the members of the royal family buying property and partying in paris/london are not the same ones that are funding and exporting ideological material , that's what i mean when i say you're conflating two seperate entities. it's not like they have a local base where they can teleport troops to...
post #1569 of 2695
The emir has been linked to various organisations like Al-Nusra, Ansar Dine etc., he very much a hand in those investments and the profits.

The ones who are driving round Kensington in Bugatti's are not the ones sending money, but that doesn't rule out the rest of "shareholder" in the fund.
post #1570 of 2695
it's probably safe to assume that investments in london/EU are not generating the types of ROIs that are being sent over to other groups. it's more like a drop in the ocean for the kids to enjoy "decadence and sin" so i don't see the point of your posting that the collective "they" own properties in london unless for some reason you think it's clever laundering scheme or something of the sort...
post #1571 of 2695
Do you know, how big that fund is and how much they own?

The funders money, has to come from somewhere and with the fund being a mayor source of revenue, the individual shareholders can easily use their profits for what they like, what ever that may be.
Edited by Find Finn - 11/16/15 at 10:25am
post #1572 of 2695
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Find Finn View Post

The emir has been linked to various organisations like Al-Nusra

 

I don't think Qatar has been able to offer much support to Nusra because of their insistence on remaining a part of the AQ network. They have been funding Ahrar al-Sham though. 

post #1573 of 2695
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

I don't think Qatar has been able to offer much support to Nusra because of their insistence on remaining a part of the AQ network. They have been funding Ahrar al-Sham though. 

Qatar and Turkey notoriously supported Nusra. Isis was a combo of many countries' support.

And there was even almost public appeals by Qatar to Nusta to break away from alqaeda but not to receive qatar support which it was, but to become US approved and receive unlimited US help and become the efficient arm that the FSA simply never was.
post #1574 of 2695
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alan View Post


Qatar and Turkey notoriously supported Nusra. Isis was a combo of many countries' support.

And there was even almost public appeals by Qatar to Nusta to break away from alqaeda but not to receive qatar support which it was, but to become US approved and receive unlimited US help and become the efficient arm that the FSA simply never was.


I don't think so. Of course there are rumors of Turkey and Qatar supporting Nusra but I don't think they're true. If they are true it's support through inaction rather than money and arms. Qatar tried to get Nusra to break from AQ so that they could support them. Jolani turned them down and that's why Ahrar is as powerful as it is.

post #1575 of 2695
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Events, Power and Money
Styleforum › Forums › General › Current Events, Power and Money › ethan's Musing on the Near East