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ethan's Musing on the Near East - Page 82

post #1216 of 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post

Afganistan has already shown the Russians to be just as capable of ass fucking themselves as the US . If anybody listened to me they would all pullout and let the locals sort it out . Iran is the big power they are the ones who need stabilize the neighborhood.

paranoia runs quite deep especially among the khaliji states , bahrain for example petulantly breaking off ties with iran for the time being http://news.yahoo.com/bahrain-recalls-ambassador-iran-expels-tehran-envoy-183333539.html

any of of those kingdoms, saudi in particular, would throw a tantrum should iran get involved in any meaningful way
post #1217 of 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post


Afganistan has already shown the Russians to be just as capable of ass fucking themselves as the US . If anybody listened to me they would all pullout and let the locals sort it out . Iran is the big power they are the ones who need stabilize the neighborhood.
The appeal of this article is roughly the same as watching a video of a bully beat on a disabled kid so you needn't read it in full but it does address your comment. To save you the click, this is the relevant point: "The new line is that Russia will only get bogged down in a quagmire, as the Soviets did in Afghanistan. Sorry, folks: Just because Obama’s incapable of learning doesn’t mean Putin is, too. And Putin’s forces won’t go into battle with lawyers looking over their shoulders, either."
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post


If ISIS is what they say they are they have to be destroyed by Iran I'm not buying the possibility of any sort of co/existance
That is likely the case but it is not inconceivable that a stable, contiguous Syria satisfactory to Iran and Russia (and Assad) can be carved out with some areas in ex-Syria and Iraq left for ISIS to play in.
post #1218 of 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post


The U.S. listened to you, but Russia hasn't.


Then may they reap the reward of repeating themselves over and over in an effort to achieve a different result

post #1219 of 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post


Afganistan has already shown the Russians to be just as capable of ass fucking themselves as the US .

Russians fought US money and NATO military supply with Pakistan being the base and safe heaven for Afghan talibs. RU had a chance to make Tadzhikistan, Turkmenistan or Kazakhstan out of that shithole, but Amurika said NO!

Fast Forward 22 years.

Amurika had everyone, including Russia and Pakistan in their corner in Afghanistan and they had failed. Murika had no plan for Afghanistan's future, unless you call operatic, rehearsed bullshit about Democracy a plan.
post #1220 of 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

paranoia runs quite deep especially among the khaliji states , bahrain for example petulantly breaking off ties with iran for the time being http://news.yahoo.com/bahrain-recalls-ambassador-iran-expels-tehran-envoy-183333539.html

any of of those kingdoms, saudi in particular, would throw a tantrum should iran get involved in any meaningful way
And how many divisions does their tantrum have?
post #1221 of 2698
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medwed View Post


Russians fought US money and NATO military supply with Pakistan being the base and safe heaven for Afghan talibs. RU had a chance to make Tadzhikistan, Turkmenistan or Kazakhstan out of that shithole, but Amurika said NO!

Fast Forward 22 years.

Amurika had everyone, including Russia and Pakistan in their corner in Afghanistan and they had failed. Murika had no plan for Afghanistan's future, unless you call operatic, rehearsed bullshit about Democracy a plan.

 

Thats exactly the reason we need to quit thinking we can make this region over. US policy makers can't get past the idea that if we feed these people a couple of BigMacs  they will see the error of their ways "Mission Accomplished"

post #1222 of 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medwed View Post

Russians fought US money and NATO military supply with Pakistan being the base and safe heaven for Afghan talibs. RU had a chance to make Tadzhikistan, Turkmenistan or Kazakhstan out of that shithole, but Amurika said NO!

Fast Forward 22 years.

Amurika had everyone, including Russia and Pakistan in their corner in Afghanistan and they had failed. Murika had no plan for Afghanistan's future, unless you call operatic, rehearsed bullshit about Democracy a plan.


I always said they should send armies of missionaries to the M.E. to fundamentally transform the region.
post #1223 of 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post

I always said they should send armies of missionaries to the M.E. to fundamentally transform the region.
armies of...missionaries....? No, just armies.
They should go with the idea more attractive to poor than Wahhabism, then drown in blood the rest.
That is how Soviet Socialist Republics of Middle Asia became somewhat civilised and stopped stoning women and fuck little boys.
post #1224 of 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post


paranoia runs quite deep especially among the khaliji states , bahrain for example petulantly breaking off ties with iran for the time being http://news.yahoo.com/bahrain-recalls-ambassador-iran-expels-tehran-envoy-183333539.html

any of of those kingdoms, saudi in particular, would throw a tantrum should iran get involved in any meaningful way


Well let them have their paranoia and their tantrums none of this crap is worth putting two hugely powerful nuclear armed powers eyeball to eyeball ,over meaningless grudges a thousand years old . I am old enough to have grown up during the cold war and the Cuban Missile Crisis  in particular and let me assure you facing the total annihilation of life on this planet dependent on which asshole blinks first is not an experiance i wish to repeat

post #1225 of 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post

two hugely powerful nuclear armed powers eyeball to eyeball ,over meaningless grudges a thousand years old .

first , this isn't a simplistic sectarian issue that you're boiling it down to, and second, i don't know what two parties you're referring to given the context of your sentence ?
post #1226 of 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post


first , this isn't a simplistic sectarian issue that you're boiling it down to, and second, i don't know what two parties you're referring to given the context of your sentence ?


      i could care less what the issues are its  just a bunch of medieval hate mongering any way you cut it .The two powers I'm referring to are the US and Russia. You know The Cold War, The History of the World before 1989, The two countries is posession of enough nuclear weapons capable, were they deployed ,of annihilating all life on the planet in a matter of hours . You are aware that both countries are sitting on ICBMs targeted to probably every major metro center on earth . You don't think they threw those damn things away do you . 

post #1227 of 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post


      i could care less what the issues are its  just a bunch of medieval hate mongering any way you cut it .The two powers I'm referring to are the US and Russia. You know The Cold War, The History of the World before 1989, The two countries is posession of enough nuclear weapons capable, were they deployed ,of annihilating all life on the planet in a matter of hours . You are aware that both countries are sitting on ICBMs targeted to probably every major metro center on earth . You don't think they threw those damn things away do you . 


Its good to know we can explode the crazies if we have to.
post #1228 of 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post

      i could care less what the issues are its  just a bunch of medieval hate mongering any way you cut it .The two powers I'm referring to are the US and Russia. You know The Cold War, The History of the World before 1989, The two countries is posession of enough nuclear weapons capable, were they deployed ,of annihilating all life on the planet in a matter of hours . You are aware that both countries are sitting on ICBMs targeted to probably every major metro center on earth . You don't think they threw those damn things away do you . 

i don't see how this is pitting those two against one another , certainly not in any way similar to what happened during the cold war. the US is nowhere near involved enough for such escalation but i can understand your POV given your past experiences I guess.

and again, no, it's really not a [medieval] historical issue though that can partially contextualize one narrative.
post #1229 of 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post


Its good to know we can explode the crazies if we have to.


Well one of things that kept the US and the Russkies from blowing the world up was that neither were suicidal religious nut cases

post #1230 of 2698
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