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post #3151 of 3318
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanComposition View Post

TL;DR version - Color coordination, balance and harmony trumps color seasonality.

+1. I used to think the same, certain colors belong to certain seasons, but it's not as easy as that. The nicest summer combination I have seen this summer was a blue jacket, mid-grey trousers, white/light pink oxbd, olive tie, light blue pocket square and polo suede shoes. Olive should be a autumnal color, but was superb in this context.
post #3152 of 3318
On another note, can someone explain the appeal of bellied lapels to me?

Bellied lapels give the appearance of... well, a belly. They guide your view down and out instead of up, also often look dated. What's the deal?
post #3153 of 3318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sander View Post

On another note, can someone explain the appeal of bellied lapels to me?

Bellied lapels give the appearance of... well, a belly. They guide your view down and out instead of up, also often look dated. What's the deal?


I think they look better on true three button SB jackets than two button, however I don't think they look dated at all. A three piece, three button, tweed suit with rolled lapels looks sweet as hell. 

post #3154 of 3318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post


I think they look better on true three button SB jackets than two button, however I don't think they look dated at all. A three piece, three button, tweed suit with rolled lapels looks sweet as hell. 

To me, this sounds like hell. Do you have a picture?

I think where it makes most sense to me would be a double-breasted shawl collar dinner jacket.
post #3155 of 3318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sander View Post


To me, this sounds like hell. Do you have a picture?

I think where it makes most sense to me would be a double-breasted shawl collar dinner jacket.


You are certainly due your opinions and preferences, but it's a pretty established style, and for good reason I think. 

 

Something like this, although I've seen better examples.

post #3156 of 3318
Thread Starter 

@Caustic Man 

@Sander 

 

I'm not sure you two mean the same thing by "bellied lapel". Sander are you talking about the concavity versus convexity of the lapel shape? Then "bellied" means convex, bowing outward from the sternum. CM's example is perhaps very slightly bellied but it has a pleasing 3D roll. If bellied means the roll, then sure, lots of belly in that sense above.

 

Sander, maybe post pictures of cases which you find aesthetically off and to fix terms.

post #3157 of 3318
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusW View Post


If you are looking for a black and white rule on this that will be true now and forevermore, there isn't going to be one. Color preferences (and in this case seasonal Summer color preferences) and the popularity of specific colors change over time. So, you must look at overall color trends if you want to look "right" in your seasonal wardrobe. So, to answer that, you simply look at current fashion seasonal color pallets. Now, whether or not those colors look good on you is a whole other discussion. The best colors are those shades of colors that look good on you and are in sync with color trends.

As far as the ties go, I think you could easily find much better color options than these for Summer with the exception of the dark brown (second from R) which would look handsome with a natural linen jacket and white shirt. The other colors I would skip (for Summer). With current trend color palettes they look too Fall/ Winter and the yellow is far too bright unless you are attending a party and the theme is "80's bright yellow tie night".

If you want to spend time discussing "could I make them work?", go ahead. All I would say to your reply would be, "Is there a better option". If so, why not go with that?


Thanks Gus. In the end, I agree with Urban about coherence so consider his recent fit

 

 

I'll call that forest green, though it's similar to the Vanda matka which they call "kale" (the latter, in the pic above, is slightly darker, but hard to tell). The pastel vibe of the square (Kimber?) and in the colors of the jacket get grounded, IMO, in the solid, darker tie, It's a very nice fit. There's something to me pleasing in using a darker, more saturated tie in this context. I'm not sure dark green is clearly autumnal (think summer lawn), but I like how darker ties work with lighter jackets for appropriate contrast. 

 

This olive actually strikes me as working nicely, maybe partly because it feels slightly less saturated which is appropriate given the very light jacket. The forest green might be too much with the white shirt and light colored jacket. Which means we are talking more about coherence. Everything outside of the tie says summer to me, and the olive is a nice, interesting touch.

 

 

BTW: I've suggested for most contexts, we talk about "advice" rather than "rules" though of course there are rules. But I take most principles for color amount to advice (but cf. don't wear bright sunny colors to a funeral, unless, I suppose, the deceased asked for such apparel).

post #3158 of 3318
Thread Starter 

Anyway, let's talk about bellies. Here's something I always thought was cool and a revelation about tailoring and iron work. From Jeffery Diduch

 

post #3159 of 3318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sander View Post

On another note, can someone explain the appeal of bellied lapels to me?

Bellied lapels give the appearance of... well, a belly. They guide your view down and out instead of up, also often look dated. What's the deal?

I think bellies look good on DBs. Straight edges look too sharp.

On an SB, I can go either way. A slight belly can make the lapels feel a little more elegant, IMO. Straight edge more modern. The concavity you see on Liverano/ Corcos only really looks good because of how they cut their quarters -- that's more about the overall silhouette than a general point about lapel design.

One downside to bellies: some might feel they're a little dated (maybe scarred by lasting influence of Tommy Nutter, who used them to an extreme degree). One downside to straight lapels: they can make the lapel feel jarring, like they're jetting out of nowhere.

Done right, a belly can give a lapel a beautiful, "organic" feel.. Done wrong, they can look bad. There's less room for error with a straight lapel.

FWIW, a lot of old SR coats from the heydays of tailoring (the eras people tend to fawn over) have subtle bellies. Also some older Rubinacci.
post #3160 of 3318
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanComposition View Post

Color coordination, balance and harmony trumps color seasonality.

If someone wants to focus a wardrobe on year-round colors, such as a navy suit, white shirt and blue tie, you can do that and be well dressed. So, I would agree with @UrbanComposition on his hierarchy.

But lets not dismiss the importance of seasonal colors. Ignoring what they offer is like eating a year-round diet of meat and potatos and ignoring any of Nature's fresh seasonal treats. You can do it, eat very well, but you miss out on so much.

My issue with seasonal colors isn't whether or not you use them, it's when they are used improperly they create visual disharmony. Nothing, to me looks more amateur or colorblind than an outfit of seasonal fabrics and colors combined with an obvious counter seasonal element of fabric and color. It looks like a mistake. And yes, there are some "gray areas" regarding seasonal color discussions because the shade of a color maters. A slight shift makes a huge difference between looking right and not quite working. Unfortunately, photos and color saturation shift from camera to computer screens and you don't always see the true effect of colors of certain fabrics online (for example a shade of brown on a shiny silk verses a linen or a wool). For the best color coordination use actual fabric swatches.
post #3161 of 3318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sander View Post

Olive should be a autumnal color, but was superb in this context.

An olive cotton suit was for many years a Trad staple. To make it look Summery it was the combination of brown shoes, pink or light blue shirt and purple or other "berry" colored ties that gave it a classic seasonal look. It also matters what shade of olive, but a light cotton twill in a dusty olive (and not a shiny bright bottle green or forest green) looks best for warm weather months when combined with other seasonally appropriate colors. That creates seasonal harmony which you will find in nature in Spring and Summer.

I would say seasonal color combinations found in Nature trump all color combination discussions.
post #3162 of 3318
Another SD native here. I would say that seasonal colors are still seasonal in places like SD and Dubai, it's just that it's always the same season. A full on autumnal palette of forrest greens, dark browns, and rust oranges looks entirely out of place between the faded asphalt and bright blue sky. A piece here or there works well, but you can't turn it up to eleven like you can in Places that actual have an autumn.
post #3163 of 3318
I agree with you on all counts, G, but the onslaught of clueless color-lovers are often the worst offenders and blithely walk out the door looking like a clown exploded on them. Better to play it safe and look possibly boring but overall pleasing than to reveal one's ignorance.
post #3164 of 3318
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanComposition View Post

I agree with you on all counts, G, but the onslaught of clueless color-lovers are often the worst offenders and blithely walk out the door looking like a clown exploded on them. Better to play it safe and look possibly boring but overall pleasing than to reveal one's ignorance.

Second only to "clueless pattern-lovers" biggrin.gif

Hey, most of the top designers wear two solid colors every day. Its easy, it works and they look great.

Part of this problem evolves from buying things online and the tie that looks good on a computer screen isn't really the ideal shade or scale of pattern to go with a jacket but after getting it they wear it anyway "because (color) goes with (color)".
post #3165 of 3318
Thread Starter 

I think we need more pics for the lapel conversation. Good, bad, etc.

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