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Gun Appreciation Thread - Page 179

post #2671 of 3147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Ah, gotcha. Is his youtube channel worth checking out?

Probably the best. If you're looking at it, he's reviewed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anginaprinzmetal View Post

If you're buying an AR a Colt is sort of the standard. I have a Colt LE6920 and love it.

There are more expensive ones (Noveske, BCM, POF, etc) which for the most part are really really good, and cheaper ones, here is where it gets tricky.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Even for plinking I would look into a few things.

1. Make sure is mil-spec, more available accessories
2. I would pay a little more for a chrome lined barrel, bolt and bolt carrier group (it'll last longer and you will not have to clean as much). Chrome lined barrels are inherently less accurate than, say, stainless steel ones, but they last longer.
3. In general ARs are not very accurate rifles per se (that's not what they are intended for). For accuracy you have bolt action rifles. Having said that, a free floated barrel would be more accurate since you would have no pressure points on the barrel. Regardless, ALL barrels become less accurate as they heat up.
4. There are 3 different lengths for the AR gas system: carbine, mid-length and rifle length, with carbine being the most common.
5. Barrel twist rate, 1:7 vs 1:9. Faster barrels (1:7) can shoot heavier ammo (62 grain and above very accurately). Something slower barrels can't do as well. They are all very good for 55-62 grain ammo, which is the most common type of 5.56/.223 bullet you'll encounter.
6. Finally, if you buy an AR15 type rifle make sure is chambered 5.56 NATO and not .223. You can shoot .223 from a 5.56 chamber but not the other way around (at least is not recommended, in theory really bad things could happen to the gun... and you)

Good luck

Or you could buy an AK and have it shooting smoothly in perpetuity by running a shoelace dipped in oil through it once every 10 years or so biggrin.gif I understand the desire to own a more refined weapon like an AR, but simplicity and reliability would be my primary concerns if I were only going to buy 1 battle rifle. Maybe the reliability differences between the two weapons are a bit exaggerated.
post #2672 of 3147
IMO it is exaggerated to some degree. My M4 I carried in the military was exceptionally reliable. And I got is pretty darn dirty in the desert at times. Many of the reliability issues that people say they have are relics of the old Vietnam era stories. A modern AR is a smooth running military machine. On top of that, the reliability of the AK, which is certainly very good, has been exaggerated over time.
post #2673 of 3147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post

IMO it is exaggerated to some degree. My M4 I carried in the military was exceptionally reliable. And I got is pretty darn dirty in the desert at times. Many of the reliability issues that people say they have are relics of the old Vietnam era stories. A modern AR is a smooth running military machine. On top of that, the reliability of the AK, which is certainly very good, has been exaggerated over time.

^ this... plus he was asking about an AR15 type rifle, not sure what an AK47 type has to do with anything...

For $1,000ish I'd go

Colt (if you can find one at this price) > M&P = Stag (with Plus package) > DPMS panther > Windham Weaponry. Sig M400 somewhere between Colt and M&P

There are others, just don't buy cheap and then regret not spending a couple hundred more and getting a nicer one... my $ 0.02
post #2674 of 3147
I am a total noob and nothing I say directly holds much water, but I recently bought a Colt M4. My most valuable resource was a friend who served in Iraq and is a bit of a gun nut. This was his advice to me:
Quote:
Your best bet for a good quality AR15 is a Smith & Wesson (all except their "Sport" model), a Colt, Sig Sauer or Daniel Defense. There are tons of poor quality AR15s out there, I strongly recommend you avoid any other brands. An easy way to buy what you want is a website like Bud's Guns - they will ship it to a registered dealer where you do the paperwork.

If you can find the base S&W (I think it is the M&P15A) they go for around $1000.

(snip)

Any of these are good:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_763_977/products_id/71968/Smith+%26+Wesson+M%26P+Semi-Automatic+223+Remington5.56+NATO+30

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_763_977/products_id/36913/S%26W+M%26P15+.223+Rifle

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_763_977/products_id/80161/Smith+%26+Wesson+M%26P+Semi-Automatic+223+Remington5.56+NATO+30

His philosophy was that if you are buying this for any remotely possible kind of self-defense need, you should have the highest quality, most reliable tool available for when you need it. He is not big on all the accessories and toys people buy for them, but is a stickler for the basic underlying quality. Hope this helps.
post #2675 of 3147
Thanks for the info, guys.

I definitely plan to stick a few things on my black gun. Bipod, flashlight, laser, red dot sight.
post #2676 of 3147
Ask yourself what you'd use a laser for. A red dot sight makes me redundant.
post #2677 of 3147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post

Ask yourself what you'd use a laser for. A red dot sight makes me redundant.

Completely agree regarding the laser/red dot use for targeting but that's not why I want the laser. This gun will be for home defense so I figure the most likely time I would actually need it would be at night. The last thing I want to do is actually pull the trigger. I figure the odds of us experiencing a professional home invasion are pretty slim so any night time intruder is more likely to be someone trying to be opportunistic or in need of a fix and looking for money or something quick to sell. Since I've ruled out pros invading I figure having a laser dot on your center mass would, in and of itself, make most intruders GTFO pretty fast.
post #2678 of 3147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas View Post

I am a total noob and nothing I say directly holds much water, but I recently bought a Colt M4. My most valuable resource was a friend who served in Iraq and is a bit of a gun nut. This was his advice to me:
His philosophy was that if you are buying this for any remotely possible kind of self-defense need, you should have the highest quality, most reliable tool available for when you need it. He is not big on all the accessories and toys people buy for them, but is a stickler for the basic underlying quality. Hope this helps.

Then HK, LWRC, and Barrett should be on that list. You might not want a DI and go short gas piston if you are worried about having the best possible self defense tool. I know the whole DI vs SGP is hot but if you are in an active shooter environment or in a hostile situation it's just a tad bit calmer know your rilfe won't jam.
I am also saying this because Douglas is not a seasoned shooter. Just like I would think a revolver would be better than a semi-auto pistol. However in a home defense situation the shotgun reigns champion. Easy to shoot, reload, and packs more than enough stopping power.
post #2679 of 3147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Completely agree regarding the laser/red dot use for targeting but that's not why I want the laser. This gun will be for home defense so I figure the most likely time I would actually need it would be at night. The last thing I want to do is actually pull the trigger. I figure the odds of us experiencing a professional home invasion are pretty slim so any night time intruder is more likely to be someone trying to be opportunistic or in need of a fix and looking for money or something quick to sell. Since I've ruled out pros invading I figure having a laser dot on your center mass would, in and of itself, make most intruders GTFO pretty fast.

I don't think an AR is the best home defense weapon - I still think the sound of racking a round in a pump shotgun is more intimidating, but certainly go with what you're comfortable with.

The laser is probably pretty effective though too. It reminds me of a story my step-dad told me where he used a laser sight to scare off a boyfriend of his daughter once. It was effective because not only did the guy not come back, he allegedly moved to Canada shortly after the incident. Or so the story goes.
post #2680 of 3147
Before you add on anything to your rifle i.e. Flashlight, Laser, bi-pod you should take a safety class and know the laws of your state. It would really suck if you had to actually use your firearm , kill a person dead as fried chicken, and then go to jail because you had a gadget on your rifle that you thought was cool but didn't know the parameter of what was consider ok and whats considered not ok.
That's why I say " shotgun with tactical light " is the way to go. If you don't want a pump, you can go semi. The semi's include Magazine fed like my MKA-1919 I got 20 rounds of 12gg goodness waiting for a bad guy.
post #2681 of 3147
I would question how effective a laser would be in terms of deterrence. Sounds like you thought it would be a good idea as opposed to basing that decision on any real evidence or real life experience. I'm not hating, just trying to give you an alternate view.
post #2682 of 3147
I also would question an AR for home defense. When you are talking about high powered rifle rounds you have to take over penetration into account. Especially if you are using M855, those rounds are made to penetrate. And they will. And they will keep going.
post #2683 of 3147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauro View Post

Before you add on anything to your rifle i.e. Flashlight, Laser, bi-pod you should take a safety class and know the laws of your state. It would really suck if you had to actually use your firearm , kill a person dead as fried chicken, and then go to jail because you had a gadget on your rifle that you thought was cool but didn't know the parameter of what was consider ok and whats considered not ok.
That's why I say " shotgun with tactical light " is the way to go. If you don't want a pump, you can go semi. The semi's include Magazine fed like my MKA-1919 I got 20 rounds of 12gg goodness waiting for a bad guy.

CCW holder, have book on my state's gun laws, etc.

Plan to get a shotgun too but I've yet to find a range that will let me shoot it. What fun is a gun you can't shoot and how comfortable are you going to be in using it during a high stress situation without practice?

@Caustic: see above. Apparently I'm not incorrect in thinking having a laser trained on one is scary. Again, the very last thing I ever want to do is pull the trigger (this should have been a hint @Mauro the type of gun owner I am), and I think the laser will act as deterrence. I'm not worried much about over penetration due to various reasons, i.e.only my wife and I, construction of my house, distance between next house, etc.

I've also got a Glock .40 with hollow points in the night stand if I was truly worried about bullet flights.
post #2684 of 3147
Do you have a Glock 23? I have one and hate it. I want the HK .45APC but I want a silver pigeon, too. I need to sell more clothes.
I am surprised your local range won't let you use a shotgun. MD and VA both allow shotguns in there in door ranges. Some have stupid rules like " shot only" or " Slugs" only.
Do you have a trap and skeet clun near your home? That should do the trick.
post #2685 of 3147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

CCW holder, have book on my state's gun laws, etc.

Plan to get a shotgun too but I've yet to find a range that will let me shoot it. What fun is a gun you can't shoot and how comfortable are you going to be in using it during a high stress situation without practice?

@Caustic: see above. Apparently I'm not incorrect in thinking having a laser trained on one is scary. Again, the very last thing I ever want to do is pull the trigger (this should have been a hint @Mauro the type of gun owner I am), and I think the laser will act as deterrence. I'm not worried much about over penetration due to various reasons, i.e.only my wife and I, construction of my house, distance between next house, etc.

I've also got a Glock .40 with hollow points in the night stand if I was truly worried about bullet flights.

Yes, seeing a red dot dancing on your chest is scary. Hollywood has made them famous and then the tacticool crowd just had to have them. Lasers are one of the most useless overrated pieces of hardware out there. There's also legal ramification too if you do shoot someone with a gun that has a laser. It can and will be played against you in court. Same goes for reloaded ammo, specialty ammo, other tacticool goodies and so on. Understand that this isn't me talking Piob, this is from my attorney who specializes in firearm incidents. He'll also tell you that it doesn't make sense but that's how it goes in court.

You're also wrong about which round is most likely going to over penetrate. Your 40 is more likely going to pass through more barriers and out into the street than a "typical" 5.56. That's just physics at work.
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