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Gun Appreciation Thread - Page 138

post #2056 of 3167
Eh, the whole Zombie thing is fun and has helped sell truckloads of after market accessories.
post #2057 of 3167
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post


Re Sparta: Properly "serfdom," not "slavery." Don't know if any state can be "built on" pederasty, but I don't think there is any evidence that the Spartans were any more enthusiastic pederasts than the men of many other Greek cities. (Greek attitudes toward homosexuality varied considerably by city and ethno-linguistic grouping--the Dorian and Aeolic Greeks seem to have been more given to it.)
Thermopylae was arguably a "futile waste of life," but it has stood as an exemplar of heroic self-sacrifice and as an inspiration to men of courage for almost 2,500 years! And let's not forget that the Spartans kicked butt on the Persians a year later at Plataea. Let us also remember that Sparta remained undefeated in open battle for at least 200 years.
That said, Sparta was a very strange state: Probably since the beginning of civilization, certain groups have oppressed others in order to live more luxuriously. The Spartans on the other hand oppressed the helots so that they (the Spartans) could live lives of grim austerity devoted to military training so that they could continue to oppress the helots.
The Spartans were early practitioners of "women's lib" (or women's sports anyway) to the fascination and horror of the other Greeks.
As to "Molon labe," I have long wondered why Leonidas didn't use the plural, "Molontes labete." Presumably he didn't expect a single Persian to try to come and take their weapons.

 

All valid points well taken. Though I must say I prefer Themistocles as a model to Leonidas.

 

At least one person I know compared the nature of the Spartan state to Rhodesia, another source of interesting military ideas. 

 

I regard the Zombie trope as kind of disturbing as it brings in the notion of fantasy to shooting modern firearms. I can see the fun factor in mastering proficiency with an AR or Glock, but no room for romance, let alone fantasy. Now, shooting my WG as I've done occasionally, that's different. 

post #2058 of 3167

My personal favourite: M-500 Elite Stealth Enforcer.

 

I can't say enough good about these guns.
 

post #2059 of 3167
I think the whole zombie thing is very much counter productive to the firearms industry as a whole.
post #2060 of 3167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post

All valid points well taken. Though I must say I prefer Themistocles as a model to Leonidas.

Do you really mean that you think it's better to be a traitor to your country and finish up as pensioner of their enemy than to be venerated as a heroic, self-sacrificing patriot? Or are you just referring to Themistocles' guileful way of dealing with the Persian invasion?
Quote:
At least one person I know compared the nature of the Spartan state to Rhodesia, another source of interesting military ideas. 
I'm not sure I see that analogy. White Rhodesians did not by and large live lives of grim austerity. And one of the very best friends i ever had had been a senior officer in the BSAP and had taken part in counter-terror operations during the insurgency. Don't know much about their "interesting military ideas." Bottom line: They lost.
Quote:
I regard the Zombie trope as kind of disturbing as it brings in the notion of fantasy to shooting modern firearms. I can see the fun factor in mastering proficiency with an AR or Glock, but no room for romance, let alone fantasy. Now, shooting my WG as I've done occasionally, that's different. 

What is a WG? If you took romance and fantasy out of the picture and men bought their guns based on severe practical need, the commercial firearms industry would collapse. Thousands of elephant rifles get sold that never see Africa. For every solitary grizzly remaining in the "Lower 48" states, there must have been at least a thousand heavy caliber revolvers sold for "grizzly protection." How many men actually need an AR to protect their households? And so it goes. Most men could get by just fine relying on their grandfathers' guns! (And I would have had to do something else for a living for 31 years!)
post #2061 of 3167
Quote:
Do you really mean that you think it's better to be a traitor to your country and finish up as pensioner of their enemy than to be venerated as a heroic, self-sacrificing patriot? Or are you just referring to Themistocles' guileful way of dealing with the Persian invasion?

 

Well, my understanding is that was all due to Spartan mendacity. Either way you have to admit he was brilliant at Salamis.

 

 

 

Quote:
I'm not sure I see that analogy. White Rhodesians did not by and large live lives of grim austerity. And one of the very best friends i ever had had been a senior officer in the BSAP and had taken part in counter-terror operations during the insurgency. Don't know much about their "interesting military ideas." Bottom line: They lost.

 

They did lose, but they did develop the MRAP, and perfected models of small scale vertical envelopment, low altitude airborne ops, etc and the pseudo ops of the Selous Scouts remain a promising model for counterinsurgency. They did lose, but that was because their entire position was morally and materially untenable in the first place. Even the South Africans knew that, which is they "sacrificed" Rhodesia in order to preserve their own regime, which some might argue was even worse on the moral front. 

 

 

 

Quote:
What is a WG? If you took romance and fantasy out of the picture and men bought their guns based on severe practical need, the commercial firearms industry would collapse. Thousands of elephant rifles get sold that never see Africa. For every solitary grizzly remaining in the "Lower 48" states, there must have been at least a thousand heavy caliber revolvers sold for "grizzly protection." How many men actually need an AR to protect their households? And so it goes. Most men could get by just fine relying on their grandfathers' guns! (And I would have had to do something else for a living for 31 years!)

 

Can't disagree with any of that. For some reason this is the only pic of any of my WGs I can find right now:

 

 

Which was taken in the course of making a catalog photo of it, which I now cannot find. Must be on another computer. 

 

The WG (Webley Government) was a Webley revolver that took the place of the Webley Kaufman in the late 1880's and by World War I was supplanted by luxury iterations of the Webley Service Revolver, such as the Webley Wilkinson. It was a common private purchase piece for British officers during the late Victorian era. I have this one as well as an example with the bird's head style grip. 

post #2062 of 3167
I've got a question for all of you. I have a Arisaka 38 carbine and a 99 rifle that I want to get in shooting condition, the 38 needs a firing pin, spring, and safety knob as well as a floor plate, spring, and follower. The 99 only needs a spring for the firing pin. These parts are all readily available on ebay as well as some gun sites online, so I'll being ordering them soon. I know I can also get ammo for the rifle which uses 7.7x 58 but it costs at least a dollar a round.

I've read that this round can be reloaded at a lot less expense than buying the ammo so I'm thinking about going that route. How much investment would it be for a simple and cheap reloading set up and about how much would it be? Do any of you have any experience with this? Also the carbine is chambered for a 6.5x50 round, can this be reloaded as well?
post #2063 of 3167
I think the zombie thing has gone from mildly amusing to stupidly annoying fairly rapidly. I was at a store the other day and saw a zombie series Eotech holosight with a reticle shaped like the biohazard emblem. Decorating the outside of your gear is one thing, but reducing your functionality--on a $500 optic, no less--is ridiculous.
post #2064 of 3167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post

Can't disagree with any of that. For some reason this is the only pic of any of my WGs I can find right now:


Nice! I love top-break revolvers. I've been on the look-out for a nice Enfield No.2 for a while now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Doe View Post

I've read that this round can be reloaded at a lot less expense than buying the ammo so I'm thinking about going that route. How much investment would it be for a simple and cheap reloading set up and about how much would it be? Do any of you have any experience with this? Also the carbine is chambered for a 6.5x50 round, can this be reloaded as well?

Lee loader is usually the first step in reloading gear. Maybe this will help: http://curioandrelicfirearmsforum.yuku.com/forum/viewtopic/id/5331#.UDfKnxxmGEM
post #2065 of 3167
I would suggest a Lee Loader only if money is very, very scarce. You can get a good RCBS starter kit with just about everything you need for less than $300, and that would be the route I'd suggest, although you may also need to get (or have made) a bench of some sort if you don't have a sturdy workbench to which the press can be bolted.
post #2066 of 3167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post

The WG (Webley Government) was a Webley revolver that took the place of the Webley Kaufman in the late 1880's and by World War I was supplanted by luxury iterations of the Webley Service Revolver, such as the Webley Wilkinson. It was a common private purchase piece for British officers during the late Victorian era. I have this one as well as an example with the bird's head style grip. 

I had never hitherto heard the term "Webley Government." However, I am, of course, very familiar with the "Webley-Green" series of revolvers. Hogg and Weeks in Pistols of the World bring some clarity to this by stating concerning the "W.G." series of revolvers, "Edwinson Green of Cheltenham originated the 'Webley' stirrup barrel lock, but controversy still surrounds these revolvers as a result of attempts by both Webley & Scott and modern Webley enthusiasts to promote the alternative term 'Webley Government.'"

William Chipchase Dowell in The Webley Story also affirmed that "the letters 'W.G.' [were] stated by Webley to stand for "Webley-Green."

When I was a youngster, Webley & Scott Mark IV and Mark VI revolvers could be had in the thriving surplus market for $14.95 or thereabouts. Of course, a dollar went a lot further back then!

My late pal Dave Arnold used a Webley & Scott Mark IV in the .38/200 chambering in his early days in the British South Africa Police in Rhodesia. He despised both the cartridge and the gun. He considered Webley revolvers highly overrated, especially by Americans, who were more likely to be awed by the mystique of the "Sidearm of the Empire" and usually lacked shooting familiarity with them.
post #2067 of 3167
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post


I had never hitherto heard the term "Webley Government." However, I am, of course, very familiar with the "Webley-Green" series of revolvers. Hogg and Weeks in Pistols of the World bring some clarity to this by stating concerning the "W.G." series of revolvers, "Edwinson Green of Cheltenham originated the 'Webley' stirrup barrel lock, but controversy still surrounds these revolvers as a result of attempts by both Webley & Scott and modern Webley enthusiasts to promote the alternative term 'Webley Government.'"
William Chipchase Dowell in The Webley Story also affirmed that "the letters 'W.G.' [were] stated by Webley to stand for "Webley-Green."
When I was a youngster, Webley & Scott Mark IV and Mark VI revolvers could be had in the thriving surplus market for $14.95 or thereabouts. Of course, a dollar went a lot further back then!
My late pal Dave Arnold used a Webley & Scott Mark IV in the .38/200 chambering in his early days in the British South Africa Police in Rhodesia. He despised both the cartridge and the gun. He considered Webley revolvers highly overrated, especially by Americans, who were more likely to be awed by the mystique of the "Sidearm of the Empire" and usually lacked shooting familiarity with them.

Well you know what side of that argument I'm on. Mine shoots quite well within the limits of .455.

post #2068 of 3167
Well, Webleys certainly built a great reputation for themselves for a long time. I don't recall ever having shot a regular Webley revolver. I did however once shoot the offbeat Webley-Fosbery automatic-revolver. It was, well, "different," but I think a man could get used to the offbeat action and do good work with it in fairly short order.
post #2069 of 3167
Thanks for the info guys.
post #2070 of 3167
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post

Well, Webleys certainly built a great reputation for themselves for a long time. I don't recall ever having shot a regular Webley revolver. I did however once shoot the offbeat Webley-Fosbery automatic-revolver. It was, well, "different," but I think a man could get used to the offbeat action and do good work with it in fairly short order.

 

As usual I'm not worthy. Closest I've been to a Fosbery is on the other side of a glass case. 

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