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Gun Appreciation Thread - Page 134

post #1996 of 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiPsi32 View Post

 

I believe it was the 1986 FBI shootout in Miami that spurred the initial interest in transitioning from revolvers to automatic handguns.  Even then, most police agencies were deploying 9mm guns.  And you will still find plenty of 9mm handguns in service at various agencies around the country (including the FBI which allows agents to carry a 9mm .40 or .45).

 

If you only make a peripheral hit, a larger caliber doesn't help much.  Now, if you can make your hits with a .45 go for it.  If you can't, the larger bullet isn't helping you.

 

a 9mm bore = 0.35699999999999993(.357) & .a 38 cal = 7.65mm & a  .45 cal = 11.5mm

 

I'll take the 45 everytime.

post #1997 of 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeyfan1000 View Post

That's why I'd refer a .45 cal.  He's not likely to get up, let alone run away.

This is pretty common internet wisdom (no offence), but there are so many black swan variables at play in whether the target goes down, I'd rather have the controlability and extra round or two that the 9mm grants. I'm okay with a .45 (1911), but I can put more rounds on target faster and more reliably with a 9mm. If it's a trade between a single round of .45 and 3 rounds of 9mm on target, I'd say the 3 rounds give me more confidence.
post #1998 of 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duff_Man View Post

This is pretty common internet wisdom (no offence), but there are so many black swan variables at play in whether the target goes down, I'd rather have the controlability and extra round or two that the 9mm grants. I'm okay with a .45 (1911), but I can put more rounds on target faster and more reliably with a 9mm. If it's a trade between a single round of .45 and 3 rounds of 9mm on target, I'd say the 3 rounds give me more confidence.

I agree with this statement. It's the prime reason why I'm shifting to the 9mm over any other semi auto caliber.

For what's it's worth bore diameter means very little in the scheme of things. A good example that shows this is the 5.7X28 FN round. In a more common caliber good luck beating the 357 Mag round. As Duff points out much of this is internet wisdom. Most of the people espousing this sort of stuff are repeating something they heard somewhere and playing it off as gospel under the ruse of being an expert.
post #1999 of 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeyfan1000 View Post

a 9mm bore = 0.35699999999999993(.357) & .a 38 cal = 7.65mm & a  .45 cal = 11.5mm

 

I'll take the 45 everytime.

 

Which would you rather get shot with a 9mm or a 45ACP?

post #2000 of 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiPsi32 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeyfan1000 View Post

a 9mm bore = 0.35699999999999993(.357) & .a 38 cal = 7.65mm & a  .45 cal = 11.5mm

 

I'll take the 45 everytime.

 

Which would you rather get shot with a 9mm or a 45ACP?


lethality of .45 is much higher than 9mm but I agree with a previous poster, I can get 5-7 rounds into the target with my USP in the time it takes for one or two hits with my Kimber, especially in competition or stressed.

post #2001 of 3062

^^^ Fairly put, but my point is that I don't want to get shot with a .45 or a 9mm or a .38 or any caliber for that matter.  But, hey, if smokeyfan only wants to shoot .45 then that's his choice. 

post #2002 of 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crane's View Post


Correct. Accuracy in placing a bullet is far more important than caliber. In any caliber it's important to pick ammunition specifically designed for the intended task. Pick the wrong type of ammo in any caliber and terminal performance goes out the window. Keep in mind I can come up with a horror story that disparages just about any caliber under the sun. There is no such thing as a magic bullet or caliber. About the only thing that's almost guaranteed to stop anything in it's tracks is a CNS hit. A 9 40 or 45 are all capable of that. So are many of today's frowned upon calibers. Where the real problem lies is whether or not you can get deep enough penetration on off angle shots and hit major arteries and lungs. Again the common duty calibers are all capable of this as well. The sub caliber small CCW guns are a different story of course but that's another subject altogether.

Also keep in mind that the longer the barrel, the more accurate the pistol will be.  I used to have a  Rossi snub nose .38 that you could aim & miss most every time.Even at close range. It was only good for point blank IMO  LOL

 

For accuracy, I would rely on a long barrel .41 , .44 or 45 caliber Western style revolver.

 

For easy concealed carry I would go with a Lady Smith in 9mm. It's a 9mm on a much smaller frame than the "men's" version

post #2003 of 3062

The gun is only as accurate as the shooter.  In most cases, the gun is more accurate than the shooter.  Just keep that in mind.

post #2004 of 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiPsi32 View Post

The gun is only as accurate as the shooter.  In most cases, the gun is more accurate than the shooter.  Just keep that in mind.

Correct. What makes a longer barreled handgun seem more accurate is sight radius. The error in sight alignment is not so pronounced and that's what the shooter observes. This goes back to why it is so important to practice the basic skills of good marksmanship. What a longer barreled handgun will do for you is increase velocity which in turn means more energy in any given caliber. Now this gets tricky as well because if you exceed the bullet's design velocity all kinds of weird things happen that erode performance. Another thing to keep in mind is velocity can and often is responsible for shallow penetration. It's counter to what you would think will happen but it's just physics at work.

Concerning lethality. I understand it in principle but in reality it's just a number like many other numbers. I said this before. If memory serves me right the 125gr 357 Mag HP by Remington is the king of the hill in fight stopping. It's lethality is something like 91 percent for one shot. No 45 ACP round comes close to this. Now with this in mind I hunt deer with both calibers and to date both calibers are very quick one shot killers. So in my experience both are 100% lethal. I attribute this to shot placement more than anything else. Again that's an issue of fundamental marksmanship.

Marksmanship trumps everything. More people need to concern themselves with this instead of arguing caliber, lethality and so on.
post #2005 of 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiPsi32 View Post

 

I believe it was the 1986 FBI shootout in Miami that spurred the initial interest in transitioning from revolvers to automatic handguns.  Even then, most police agencies were deploying 9mm guns.  And you will still find plenty of 9mm handguns in service at various agencies around the country (including the FBI which allows agents to carry a 9mm .40 or .45).

 

If you only make a peripheral hit, a larger caliber doesn't help much.  Now, if you can make your hits with a .45 go for it.  If you can't, the larger bullet isn't helping you.

 I like the .45 better, but the 9mm has an advantage in +p+ rounds. It has a higher velocity with a smaller diameter. The 9mm mass is less than the mass of a .45, but a +p+ will transfer more emergy to the target.

 

Selection of ammo is just as important as selection of firearm.

post #2006 of 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by DressedWell View Post

 I like the .45 better, but the 9mm has an advantage in +p+ rounds. It has a higher velocity with a smaller diameter. The 9mm mass is less than the mass of a .45, but a +p+ will transfer more emergy to the target.

Selection of ammo is just as important as selection of firearm.

Again energy in and of itself means very little in the scheme of things. Temporary and permanent wound channels is more important along with deep enough penetration.
post #2007 of 3062

^^^ That's pretty much it.  The "stopping power" of any round is a result of disrupting the central nervous system or the cardiovascular system. You can't accomplish this if you can't place the rounds on target.  Again, if you can make your hits with a .45 under stress, that's great.  If not, think about the alternatives.

post #2008 of 3062
Any of you guys have experience with the new breeds of "tactical" .22's?

They're basically big gun reps, without the big gun costs.

Looking at something fun to shoot in Canada (range-only), non-restricted, and fun.

The Mossberg 715t has been pushed on me, but I'm reading mixed reviews...

Needs:
Tactical style (thanks, COD)
Attachment friendly
Relatively inexpensive (sub $600)
post #2009 of 3062
Third time's a charm: Saturday I was going to buy a Ruger SR9c. Didn't have enough time in my busy schedule on the day to do so, so I was planning on doing so on Monday. The guys at the gun store were really nice, and the guy I talked to spent a good amount of time on me on Saturday, knowing that I didn't have the time to purchase it that day. Going back tomorrow to get it, and going shooting (and getting measured for a suit) on Thursday. Planning on putting at least 100 (probably more like 200-300) rounds through it on Thursday. It'll be my first gun, but I'll let you guys know what I think.

I do hear it doesn't like Remington UMC rounds, so I'm going to try to avoid those.
post #2010 of 3062

Not a fan of the Ruger autos.  Spec sheet indicates that this model has a magazine disconnect (not a feature I like).  Still I'd be interested to hear your report after spending some time on the range.

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