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Gun Appreciation Thread - Page 126

post #1876 of 3062

That's partially true.  The push to "upgrade" police sidearms was prompted in no small part to the 1986 shoot out between the FBI and two bank robbers in Florida.  The 10mm cartridge was developed at the behest of the FBI and led to the 40S&W which has become a very popular police and home defense caliber.

 

The stats for police shootings puts the hit rate in the low double digits.  Police engagements are high stress encounters under dynamic conditions.  So it's not entirely surprising.  The benefit isn't as much the large capacity magazine as it is a cartridge that provides better end terminal ballistics.

post #1877 of 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiPsi32 View Post

That's partially true.  The push to "upgrade" police sidearms was prompted in no small part to the 1986 shoot out between the FBI and two bank robbers in Florida.  The 10mm cartridge was developed at the behest of the FBI and led to the 40S&W which has become a very popular police and home defense caliber.

The stats for police shootings puts the hit rate in the low double digits.  Police engagements are high stress encounters under dynamic conditions.  So it's not entirely surprising.  The benefit isn't as much the large capacity magazine as it is a cartridge that provides better end terminal ballistics.

Weren't they armed with a rifle as well (the bank robbers)?
post #1878 of 3062
The robbers had rifles but no body armor. Yet they didn't go down after multiple hits with a .38spl

Hence the desire for a different cartridge.
post #1879 of 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiPsi32 View Post

That's partially true.  The push to "upgrade" police sidearms was prompted in no small part to the 1986 shoot out between the FBI and two bank robbers in Florida.  The 10mm cartridge was developed at the behest of the FBI and led to the 40S&W which has become a very popular police and home defense caliber.

The stats for police shootings puts the hit rate in the low double digits.  Police engagements are high stress encounters under dynamic conditions.  So it's not entirely surprising.  The benefit isn't as much the large capacity magazine as it is a cartridge that provides better end terminal ballistics.

Actually, the move toward auto pistols was well under way before the FBI's Miami Shootout. While Michael Platt was hit many times, nearly all the hits were peripheral. The 9mm got more flak because the one solid hit he received travelled up his brawny arm and into his chest. Although the wound was probably mortal, it failed to incapacitate him immediately. A lot of people claimed that a a .45 would have gone deep enough to sever the pulmonary artery and taken him out quickly. The load as I recall was a 9mm Winchester Silvertip. Agent Mireles ended the fight by killing both Platt and Mattix with a .357 loaded with .38 Specials.

We seem to be arguing, it it's that, at cross purposes: I agree that in general the .40 S&W is an appreciably more effective stopper, although both cartridges are loaded across a considerable power spectrum. This has nothing to do with whether a person is much safer with a high-capacity auto pistol than with a revolver. There are a number of good revolver cartridges that, appropriately loaded, can equal or beat the .40 S&W, e.g., the .357 Magnum.
post #1880 of 3062
I'm not disagreeing with you per se. I apologize if that's the impression I left.
post #1881 of 3062

That was about 65 years ago.  Gunlandia was the third nuking after Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

post #1882 of 3062
Colt 357. Got this over the weekend.

1.png
Edited by bwong337 - 5/16/12 at 8:27pm
post #1883 of 3062
^Can't open the image. What model is it? I have two Colt .357s, an early 7 1/2-inch New Frontier and a 4-inch Python.
post #1884 of 3062
Jan, one of my three handguns is a Glock 23. What round that I could easily find at my local gun shop would you suggest for my carry ammo?
post #1885 of 3062

If I may, the Federal Hydrashok and Speer Gold Dot are both excellent carry rounds.  The Remington Golden Saber is also good, but it is a hotter round.  You may want to test fire a few mags to see how you like it before loading into your carry gun.

 

**Edit**

 

The Winchester T series is also good but availability is spotty.  I prefer the Gold Dot.

post #1886 of 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post

^Can't open the image. What model is it? I have two Colt .357s, an early 7 1/2-inch New Frontier and a 4-inch Python.

Thanks. I fixed the link now. It's a Pre Python/Trooper Colt 357. It's just called 357.
post #1887 of 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiPsi32 View Post

If I may, the Federal Hydrashok and Speer Gold Dot are both excellent carry rounds.  The Remington Golden Saber is also good, but it is a hotter round.  You may want to test fire a few mags to see how you like it before loading into your carry gun.

**Edit**

The Winchester T series is also good but availability is spotty.  I prefer the Gold Dot.

Seems like good advice to me. Any of the 155-grain or full-power 165-grain JHPs should give you about as good a level of protection as you can get from a handgun cartridge. Some of the really hot loads can compromise functional reliability and are reputed to be hard on guns. The reduced-power .40 S&W loads can also compromise functional reliability. The 180s are pretty fair stoppers but not as effective as the foregoing.
post #1888 of 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwong337 View Post

Colt 357. Got this over the weekend.
1.png

I had one of those for awhile back in around 1967. I traded it off because it broke the firing pin a couple of times, although I probably was dry-snapping it too much. Any idea who made the stocks? Looks like it might have been some of Fuzzy Farrant's earlier work.
post #1889 of 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiPsi32 View Post

If I may, the Federal Hydrashok and Speer Gold Dot are both excellent carry rounds.  The Remington Golden Saber is also good, but it is a hotter round.  You may want to test fire a few mags to see how you like it before loading into your carry gun.

**Edit**

The Winchester T series is also good but availability is spotty.  I prefer the Gold Dot.

Seems like good advice to me. Any of the 155-grain or full-power 165-grain JHPs should give you about as good a level of protection as you can get from a handgun cartridge. Some of the really hot loads can compromise functional reliability and are reputed to be hard on guns. The reduced-power .40 S&W loads can also compromise functional reliability. The 180s are pretty fair stoppers but not as effective as the foregoing.

Thanks, guys. I actually have been using the Gold Dots so will probably stick with them. I use one clip of those every quarter. I can only force myself to a range about once a quarter and empty my current carry clip just because then use a good old Winchester White Box (thank you Walmart) for target ammo.
post #1890 of 3062

Iroh, get out of here.

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